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View Full Version : LW Transport Groups in Greece Dec 41


AndreasB
1st November 2011, 12:51
I have put together some numbers on strength and performance of the Transportgruppen in Greece which were engaged in supplying North Africa during early Dec 41. The info is from the HW5 files in Kew.

Post 1: http://wp.me/phMWl-lM

Post 2: http://wp.me/phMWl-lQ

Happy reading. Comments are more than welcome.

One question - it states the Ju 52 could carry nine barrels of fuel. Does anyone know the size of a LW barrel?

All the best

Andreas

robert
1st November 2011, 13:06
Hi,
during the Polish Campaign fuel and oil were transported in 200-l and 300-l drums but sometimes also in 100-l containers.

Regards

Robert

Larry deZeng
1st November 2011, 14:54
There's a photo in Morzik's book on German air transport operations that shows a typical load of fuel drums aboard a Ju 52 bound for North Africa. It's not possible to count the number of drums in the photo but they are definitely the big 55-gal. drums that we normally associate with oil and fuel. If my calculations are correct, each of these would weigh about 800-lbs. So 9 of them would be 7,200-lbs. According to William Green's Warplanes of the Third Reich (p.413), the Ju 52/3m could take a normal load of 8,334-lbs. If you add in the weight of the crew members and normal on-board equipment to the 7,200-lbs of fuel in the drums, you would be just about at the 8,334-lb. limit.

L.

AndreasB
1st November 2011, 15:35
Hi Larry

Many thanks. I have different results of the calculation though?

For a 55 (US) gallon barrel, or 208l, I get to 148kg at a specific weight of 0.711kg/ltr for petrol, excluding the weight of the barrel. Let's say 160kg including the barrel, or almost 353 lbs.

That would make 1,420kg for nine barrrels, plus a few kg for fixtures to keep them in place. That would be 3,130 lbs. If we use UK gallons, we end up with just under 3,600lbs.

Considering that there was a maximum loading weight per sqm for the floor, that doesn't sound too unrealistic?

It's about half of the possible weight, but I am wondering if this may have been required in order to ensure the planes could go and come back on one full tank?

All the best

Andreas

Larry deZeng
1st November 2011, 16:19
Hmmm........... I always thought a U.S. gallon of liquid weighed 14.7-lbs. Do I need to go back to school? I haven't messed with liquid weights for 60 years so I could very easily be wrong, Andreas. Use your own judgement on this - it's probably far better than mine. :)

L.

AndreasB
1st November 2011, 16:34
Hi Larry

It probably depends on the type of liquid, too. :)

All the best

Andreas

RT
1st November 2011, 17:00
1.5 Tons something unrealistic, that is the max. usual payload of a Ju52, but Derna pretty far from Greece you hv to add the fuel the Junker hv to sue for the trip, even with landing on Kreta

Rémi

Matti Salonen
1st November 2011, 18:54
I also did some calculation as follows:

First, that 8,334-lbs load includes besides crew also aircraft fuel and oil.

According to L.Dv. 315a (Loading instructions for Ju 52/3mg4e and g3e):
- for range of 1040 km maximum useful load was 1850 kg
- for range of 670 km maximum useful load was 2300 kg.
Specific weight of B3 gasoline was appr. 0,73. When content of a standard German barrel was appr. 185 litres (these barrels were called 200 litre barrels) and empty weight of the barrel appr. 20 kg, total weight of a barrel should be appr. 155 kg.
Maximum load capacity of the floor was 450 - 650 kg/m2, which should not be a problem.
Then, theoretically maximum load would be 12 barrels for long transport flights, but perhaps the limiting factor has been a combination of available floor space and center of gravity.

Matti

AndreasB
1st November 2011, 21:04
Thank you Matti, that's excellent. Also great to see the real range at realistic load.

The distance from Patras (Araxos) was 634km.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GPA-DNF&MS=wls&DU=km

From Athens it was 608km.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GPA-DNF&MS=wls&DU=km

Heraklion - Derna was 383km.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=GPA-DNF&MS=wls&DU=km

Chania (in lieu of Maleme) - Derna was 353.

So well within the range at maximum load, unless you wanted to reduce fuel on the way back (which in my view was an objective). In which case a typical route could have been:

Tatoi/Araxos - Derna - Maleme (for refueling) - Tatoi/Araxos

Very very helpful!

Many thanks.

All the best

Andreas

RT
1st November 2011, 22:22
Not a very big lake in fact the med.:o

Rémi