Long-Range Hurricane II (internal tanks)

[AndreasB]

In 'Goon in the Block' by Don Edy (http://www.goonintheblock.com/) he states that No. 33 Squadron RAF in 1941 were equipped with a version of Hurricanes with an internal tank to give them longer range.

Does anyone have further details on the performance of this version, and how many of them were issued?

Many thanks!

All the best

Andreas

[Graham Boak]

To the best of my knowledge, this isn't described in any other Hurricane book (and I have a lot of them, for what that's worth). It's not clear where such a tank could be placed, as the Hurricane did not have the spare c.g. range/stability for carrying such a tank behind the pilot. It was so limited that Sea Hurricanes, with an arrester hook and catapult spools, had to use the heavier metal DH propeller rather than the wooden Rotol one.

Does he give any other information?

[AndreasB]

Many thanks Graham. I am away from the book at the moment, but will get back to this in January.

All the best

Andreas

[AndreasB]

Okay, I have now found confirmation of the long-range, but nothing on the location of the tank. In AIR22-208 it states that No. 33 Squadron received LR Hurricanes which were most valuable in long-range intrusion missions to attack ground transport. It states also that 2 of these planes were received by 2 December 41, and others during the next few days. These first two were flown in by Fl/O Kelsall and Sgt. Dallas of No. 33, the planes coming from 53 R.S.U. to Giarabub. They are described as 'new long-range Hurricanes' in the ORB.

This could of course just refer to the normal LR version with underwing tanks?

All the best

Andreas

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

Are these of any help or do they only muddy the waters more?

http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/P00869.045

http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/P00150.019

These were non-droppable tanks?? Sort of "integral".

Cheers,
Kari

[brewerjerry]

Hi
I read somewhere the PR hurricanes had extra internal fuel tanks, but I assumed that it took the space of the removed MG or cannon.
cheers
Jerry

[AndreasB]

Hello!

Are these of any help or do they only muddy the waters more?

http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/P00869.045

http://cas.awm.gov.au/item/P00150.019

These were non-droppable tanks?? Sort of "integral".

Cheers,
Kari

I have no idea. It threw me a bit too. Don Edy says that they were internal, and made the planes handle worse, but that the extra fuel tanks were the reason why No. 33 was riding shotgun for the PR planes.

All the best

Andreas

[Col Bruggy]

Hello,

Delivery pilot, P/O Kelsall = AUS400203 P/O Albert Edward KELSALL RAAF.

Col.

[AndreasB]

Thanks! Quite the international squadron. Don Edy is Canadian, P/O Wade was American.

All the best

Andreas

[AndreasB]

Okay, I have now picked up the copy of the book again. He describes them as refurbished Battle of Britain Hurricanes (Hurricane I?) with additional fuel tanks internal in the wings.

Any thoughts?

All the best

Andreas

[Graham Boak]

"Refurbished" could mean anything: any fighter old enough to have served in the BoB would have been through a number of overhauls by whatever time this was in 1941. Do we have any better guide to the timing? However, the Mk.I wing was not capable of carrying anything other than the fixed external ferry tanks.

Many Mk.Is were converted into Mk.IIs, and this was capable of carrying the jettisonable tanks. However, this does not seem to have appeared in the Middle East before the middle of 1941 at the earliest - the operations in Greece/Crete only involved Mk.Is. I don't recall any mention in Shores/Cull book on this campaign concerning anything other than standard Mk.Is in 33 Sq., and late production ones at that, so I suspect the timing is late in the year.

The problem remains that there seems to be no place in the Hurricane wing for additional tanks other than the armament bays, and 33 was a fighter unit not FR/PR where a reduced armament would be acceptable.

[AndreasB]

Thanks again Graham. I think I'll put this one down to faulty memory, and what he may have meant were fixed underwing tanks.

All the best

Andreas

[brewerjerry]

Hi
Just a thought graham you mentioned about a year ago in a brit modeller thread, that malta modified it's PR hurricanes to have fuel tanks in the leading edges of the wings.
Could this possibly be the same or similar modifiction, but done to a normal fighter hurricane.
cheers
Jerry


post 16 http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42962

[Graham Boak]

That's an interesting thought, but the PR Hurricanes don't carry armament, leaving space for significant tanks.

It's worth also remembering that the Mk.VIII Spitfire had leading edge tanks, tucked into the space ahead of the undercarriage near the wing root. There doesn't seem to be a lot of space there, but it was considered worthwhile. IIRC, the Hurricane already had tanks in the wing root, but I can't picture them offhand (the manual is upstairs.....)

Although there are only rare examples of RAF engineering officers carrying out locally-invented modifications to aircraft, those that did happen show considerable inventiveness. Just because I (and it seems no-one else on the board) can't think of how to fit more fuel into a Hurricane doesn't rule it out completely. There's always the outer wing..... not an ideal place for carrying fuel but perhaps?

[CraigQ]

That's an interesting thought, but the PR Hurricanes don't carry armament, leaving space for significant tanks.

It's worth also remembering that the Mk.VIII Spitfire had leading edge tanks, tucked into the space ahead of the undercarriage near the wing root. There doesn't seem to be a lot of space there, but it was considered worthwhile. IIRC, the Hurricane already had tanks in the wing root, but I can't picture them offhand (the manual is upstairs.....)

Although there are only rare examples of RAF engineering officers carrying out locally-invented modifications to aircraft, those that did happen show considerable inventiveness. Just because I (and it seems no-one else on the board) can't think of how to fit more fuel into a Hurricane doesn't rule it out completely. There's always the outer wing..... not an ideal place for carrying fuel but perhaps?


The Hurricane had it's oil tank in the LH wing root ahead of the undercarriage and the filters in the same place on the RH side. The only space that extra fuel cells could have been placed were the gun/ammo bays. The wing tanks are in the center section outboard frame work aft of the undercarriage attach points. I can upload and post pictures of this I shot while doing extensive work on the Fighter Factories Hurri a couple of years ago.

[AndreasB]

Many thanks all!

All the best

Andreas

[AndreasB]

Okay, just to add to the confusion, Shores et al's new book on the Air War in the Med also mentions LR Hurricane I being used by No. 33 Squadron in September/October. The squadron was re-equipped with Hurricane I after Greece, i.e. during the summer. I have yet to trawl the book in detail to see if there is any other mention of the details of the planes.

All the best

Andreas

[Graham Boak]

I'm in the middle of reading it - 27th September. Can you please point me at the 33Sq reference for I can't find it in September or October. I've passed a brief reference to long range conversion in April 1941 involving 274 Sq - retaining armament.

Later, 274 was used for long range operations to Crete in the final stages of the evacuation. A description of the aircraft is on page 196 but it does not go into detail about the engineering of the tanks. Nothing appears to be incompatible with the fixed external ones.

[AndreasB]

Hi Graham

I'll get you the reference tonight.

Regarding external tanks, that's almost certainly the answer then.

All the best

Andreas

[Graham Boak]

There is a reference to 33 Sq with long-range Hurricanes in early November (P305, November 13th) which talks of the severe effect of the tanks on aircraft performance, which certainly does point to the external tanks.

[AndreasB]

Bringing this back up. This article talks about an internal 28 gallon tank situated in the front of the plane.



http://www.rogerdarlington.me.uk/Hurricane.html#Fuel


Also, No. 274 Sqdn notes it flew a mix of long-range and normal Hurricanes (as well as one 'cannon' Hurricane) in June and July 1941.


Any thoughts?


All the best


Andreas

[Graham Boak]

This is the standard Hurricane reserve fuel tank. I think it is mentioned earlier in the thread, but I just took a quick look on Wikipedia.