View Full Version : FW190 versus P39

keith A
15th January 2012, 18:46
On 16 July 1944 100 GIAP, flying P-39N encountered Fw190s at Stoyanov and then later at Tartakov in the Ukraine. I think the unit was JG54 but does anyone know if they suffered casualties?



16th January 2012, 06:36
Hi Keith

Don't think that JG54 ever got as far south as Ukraine, that would be JG52's area, and they never flew Fw190's, perhaps JG51 who flew both Bf109's and Fw190's are who you are looking for, and they lost at least one Fw190 on this day when Ofw Joacim Bussert was injured when he crashed his Fw190 during landing, but don't know where, or if because of battle damage.
But saying that the only claimers of P-39's flying Fw190's were 1./JG54,3./JG54(Kittel) and 11./JG54(Hartrampf over the Baltic Sea). Other option would be 10./JG11, don't know what they were flying, but again I think they were too far North for Ukraine!



keith A
16th January 2012, 19:29
Hi Johannes,

Thanks for that. I wonder if they encountered an SG unit flying Fw190? I will look there. I think JG51 were equipped with FW190 in 1944, but I haven't seen any evidence that indicates they encountered P-39s on that date.



Leo Etgen
16th January 2012, 21:36
Hi guys

At the date in question only the Stabsstaffel of JG 51 was equipped with the Fw 190 but this unit was engaged on the central sector of the Eastern Front at the time. I am also nearly certain that the Fw 190 was not of I., II or IV./JG 54 as these units were based on the northern and central sectors of the Eastern Front at the time as was III./JG 11. It would appear that most likely it was an aircraft of a ground-attack unit.



Andrew Arthy
17th January 2012, 10:09

II./S.G. 10, II./J.G. 52 and III./J.G. 11 seem to have been based at Zamosc on this day, around 100 km west of the two places you mention. Those units, along with I. and III./J.G. 52, all claimed aerial victories in the Stoyanov area, including several Airacobras.

II./S.G. 10 was the only FW 190-equipped unit to claim Airacobras shot down near Stoyanov, at 10:15 and 19:45.

Andrew A.

Air War Publications - www.airwarpublications.com (http://www.airwarpublications.com)

keith A
17th January 2012, 17:49
Cheers Andrew, another bit of the puzzle solved. :)

Laurent Rizzotti
17th January 2012, 18:42
Of the above units, III./JG 52 had this day three losses (an aircraft shot down by enemy aircraft and two missing), II./SG 10 also three (one shot by enemy aircraft, one by AA fire and one missing) and III./JG 11 one (without enemy action).

So the Fw 190 of II./SG 10 at least were engaged in an air battle this day.

Rob Romero
17th January 2012, 22:34
Did 100 GIAP lose any aircraft?


18th January 2012, 05:28
Hi Guys

I believe the losses were sunstained by 5./SG10 South-West of Ochlopow(North-western Ukraine near Poland) Lt Luitpold Kuffer and Uffz Wilhelm Kreis being shot down, the latter in combat with Rusian Yak's and Airocobra's.

SG1 and SG77 also had losses, but the area is not so favourable!



18th January 2012, 11:46
On 16 July 1944By the way: On that day Walter Wolfrum was heavily wounded in a fight with Airacobras in his Bf 109 G-6, 163631, "weiße 6". He also claimed a Cobra that day.

Are there any claims for a 109 and/or losses by 100 GIAP or other units of 7 IAK?

25th January 2012, 00:03
I was looking over the period of time on the 16Jul44 from 08:00-09:30(Berlin and maybe eastern European depending on the unit). I read that Spaete's IV/JG54 had been pulled back to Lublin, Poland around the 13th. On checking Tony Wood's list for the 16th there are cliams listed 50342 and 50151 for the 10. & 11./JG54. Also I found that Oblt. Paul-Rudolf Deterra 10./JG54 was KIA in dogfight on the 16th in FW 190A-8 Wnr. 174029 at 5031(?). Units engaged during that time in that area seem to be IV/JG54, 1. & 8./JG52 and 8./JG51.

27th January 2012, 13:53
You listed Uffz Wihelm Kries and Lt. Luitpold Kuffer (I only found a Lt. Kuffer of 5./SG10 on Kracker) of the 5./SG10 as lost on the 16Jul44. Do you know which FW 190F-8 they were in WNr. 930476 and WNr. 190084? According to Kracker Oblt. Deterra 10./JG54 was KIA in an air battle with Pe-2's.