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GMichalski
20th August 2013, 00:03
hi,
sorry my confusion, was 31fg....i wrote too fast...
i found some losses in Dieppe raid in 19 august 42:

31 FG lost eight Spitfires, with seven more damaged,
these are the info of planes lost i found:

420819 SPITFIRE VB BL338 31FG 308FS Dieppe Failed to Return, lost eight Spitfires, with seven more damaged
420819 SPITFIRE VB EN778 31FG 309FS Dieppe Failed to Return, lost eight Spitfires, with seven more damaged
420819 SPITFIRE VB EN792 31FG 308FS Dieppe Failed to Return, lost eight Spitfires, with seven more damaged
420819 SPITFIRE VB EN855 31FG 307FS Dieppe Ops, lost eight Spitfires, with seven more damaged

and more info only of pilots:
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 309FS Junkin, Samuel F Jr asr/w Dieppe Shoot down and bail out, lost in combat in Dieppe area
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 308FS Smith, Derwood K Safe Dieppe Damaged, was hit by 20 mm and 7.92 mm rounds. Rtn with plane
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 308FS Dabney, William A. M.* KIA Dieppe Cat.Em due to fighters
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 307FS 1/Lt Wright (Wight?), Robert G. KIA Dieppe Dieppe Area
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 307FS Mitchell, Merlin P Safe Dieppe was badly damaged by 20 mm cannon fire, but he returned to base.
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 307FS 1/Lt Tovrea, Edward A POW Dieppe Dieppe Area
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 308FS Ingraham, Robert D other sources have his name spelt Inghram, Ingrams or Ingram POW Dieppe SHOT DOWN BY FLAK? FIGHTERS? OFF DIEPPE, FRANCE ON AUGUST 19, 1942. BAILED OUT AND SPENT 40 HOURS FLOATING IN DINGHY. CAPTURED AND ON SEPTEMBER 10, 1942
420819 SPITFIRE VB 31FG 309FS 1/ Lt. Collins KIA Dieppe Cat.Em lost in combat in Dieppe area


can anyone add some info or associate each pilot for each plane...
many thanks,
regards

udf_00
20th August 2013, 03:48
http://www.usaafdata.com/search

ASN First Name Last Name Rank State Day Mth Year Details

O-437013 William A M Dabney 2L VA 19 8 1942 Spitfire Vb BL338
O-440153 Robert G Wight 2L TX 19 8 1942 Spitfire Vb EN855

Alex Smart
20th August 2013, 04:09
Hello,
While "Losses of the 8th & 9th Air Forces" has the names there is no reference to any Spitfire serial numbers.
However, "Spitfire International" has the following -

Returned - Junkin - AB811
Returned - Smith -(308FS).
KIA - Dabney - R7344 "Borough of Halesowen"
KIA - Wright/Wight? - EN855
Returned - Mitchell -(307FS).
POW - Tovrea - EP111
POW - Ingram -EN792
KIA - Collins - EN778
KIA - Wells - EN929
Returned - Waltner - BL338 returned to service.

And from the AB RAF serial numbers series -
R7344 - 91/308 -Missing from escorting Blenheims to Hazebrouck 19-8-42(31FG/308FS.)
AB811 - 71/403/309 Missing off Dieppe 19-8-42 (31FG/309FS)[Junkin].
BL338 - 31FG/308FS, Temp Missing 19-8-42.[Waltner].
BM472 -31FG/308FS, Crashed Kenley 19-8-42.Later to 52FG and 131 Sqn.
EP174 - 31FG/308FS,Crashed Kenley 19-8-42. Eventualy to Admiralty.
EN776 - 31FG/307FS, Crashed 19-8-42. [Mitchell ?] To 234 Sqn.
EN778 - 31FG/309FS.Missing 19-8-42.
EN792 - 31FG/308FS.Missing 19-8-42.
EN855 - 31FG/307FS.Lost 19-8-42.
EN863 - 31FG/308FS,Crashed 19-8-42. To 350 Sqn.
EN929 - 31FG/307FS. Missing 20-8-42 (?).
EP111 - 31FG/309FS. Missing 20-8-42 (?).
Therefore, Smith, Mitchell and two other pilots(who ?) were in either of BM472,EN776,EN863 and EP174.

All the very best
Alex

GMichalski
20th August 2013, 09:50
hi,
great info,
many thanks,

http://www.usaafdata.com/?q=node/116223
in this web i find:


Lewis P Wells, Jr Spitfire Vb EN778?

regards

Alex Smart
21st August 2013, 03:33
Hello,
While I accept that the usaafdatabase you refer to is great for details on American aircraft and crews in general. I would trust the AB details for the British aircraft.
For eg:
Dabney was KIA over Dieppe, therefore his aircraft woulld not have been returned to service as was BL338 according to "Spitfire International",
BL338 - Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); ToC/RAF 15.11.41 - US 8thAF; 31st FG, 309th FS High Ercall 20.6.42; Temp Missing 19.8.42; 308th FS Westhampnett, crashed landing, Cat A 26.8.42 (2Lt.WR Waltner OK); Re-Cat.B; Retd RAF (Repaired in Works, date unknown)
And for R7344:
R7344 Spitfire F.Vb (Merlin 45); Presentation aircraft "Borough of Halesowen"; ToC/RAF 12.4.41 - US 8th AF; 31st FG Atcham, 308th FS 14.7.42; Took off 10.02, missing near Dieppe, CatFB/E 19.8.42 (1/Lt WAM Dabney killed),SoC.

But then a contradiction from
From "BA100 to BZ999"
BL338 - 72/High Ercall/308US - Missing on fighter sweep to Dieppe 19.8.42.
and for R7344
"P1000 to R9999"
R7344 - 91/308 - Missing from escorting Blenheims to Hazebrouck, 19.8.42.

And from Flag3 the MACR (16481) one page has unknown for a/c type and unknown for a/c serial number.

And then from the on line Spitfire Production list:
BL338 Vb CBAF M45 8MU 15-11-41 72S 21-11-41 FACB 14-3-42 ASTH 308USAAF FTR Dieppe raid 19-8-42.
R7344 Vb 1585 EA M45 FF 12-4-41 8MU 12-4-41 91S 28-4-41 Westland 11-4-42 308S 14-7-42 Missing from escorting Blenheims to Hazebrouck 19-8-42.
"Spitfire - the History" has for
BL338
"BL338 - 8MU 15-11-41 72S 21-11 FACB 14-3-42 ASTH 308 USA FTR 19-8". (FACB= Flying Accident Cat B;ASTH = Air Service Training Hamble).
and for
R7344
"R7344 - 1585 - EA FF 12-4-41 8MU 12-4 91S 28-4 WAL 11-4-42 308S 14-7 FTR ops 19-8". (WAL = Westland Aircraft Ltd).

So as you can see the whole thing is confusion.Depends which refs you wish to follow.

Best of luck
Alex

GMichalski
21st August 2013, 19:22
hi,
many thanks for the explain Alex,
regards

Steve49
25th August 2013, 16:26
Interesting to read about the 31st FG losses; I've previously not been able to get much information on their Spitfires lost/damaged.

The two pilots for the other two losses are;

2nd Lt Lewis P. Wells Jr (307th FS); lost after his aircraft crashed off the south coast of England whilst returning from 307th FS third mission, probably after running out of fuel. His body was recovered by a local fishing boat and later transferred to HSL127 (later buried Cambridge).

Lt Berry Chandler (309th FS); lost after his aircraft was hit by flak during the second 309th FS mission. He bailed out 12 miles from French coast and was recovered by an ASR launch (identity not known), which later transferred him to MGB312.

I guess if the references are correct, Wells would be in 'EN929' and Chandler in 'EP111'.

Do you have any more information on the pilots who took part? I've been able to establish a list of the RAF aircrews, but have only patchy information for those from the 31st FG.

Regards,

Steve

GMichalski
27th August 2013, 09:34
Hi,
the info i found is from this web

http://raf-112-squadron.org/31stfghonor_roll43_44.html

hope it helps,
regards

GMichalski
27th August 2013, 10:46
Hi,
I have different information about Wells:

12.40-? crashed in the channel off the south coast of England and his body washed up on the beach

At 12:25 the 307th began its second mission of the day. Again no claims were made, and Lt. Wells of the 307th was posted missing in action (he was later found dead by Allied ASR (Air Sea Rescue)

regards