Soviet aircraft ID

[researcher111]

Can anyone identify the type of wreck , shot taken 1941 ?

[oquaig]

Not Soviet. Possibly Italian ?

[dogsbodymk1]

That looks like a Lockheed starboard landing gear leg to me. A Hudson perhaps? Did not the Romanians have some Lockheed 14's impressed from their national airline?


Chris

[oquaig]

I was thinking Romanian Air Force as well, but maybe a Savoia-Marchetti ?

[Kutscha]

A/c needs to have

- under slung engine
- single oleo strut
- 1930's style nacelle

[bearoutwest]

Aircraft in the background seems to have French-style roundels, so why Russian aircraft?

Nacelle is quite large - possibly 5+ ft in diameter, compared with the officer (Luftwaffe?) sitting in front.

Oleo leg has side panel cover, and swings backwards into the nacelle. Oleo is also quite tall, again as tall as the officer (if he stands straight).

Aircraft appears to be with a wing mounted high compared with the nacelle.

I'm guessing perhaps a Bloch 170-series (perhaps the prototype 170 or a 174/175). The only thing I cannot see is the underscoop air intake, though that may have come off in the crash/blast. Perhaps an early version, as the engine cowl doesn't seem as long and curved/refined as the 174/175.

Regards,
...geoff

[Graham Boak]

I agree about the Lockheed source. The cowl is that of a single-row Cyclone, not the two-row engine of the Bloch. I don't know of any other type with such a large structure in front of a single undercarriage leg. The Bloch has a twin-fork, presumably Messier, undercarriage reminiscent of the Halifax.

Perhaps the access panel behind the cowl will provide confirmation?

The camouflage on the aircraft in the background does look more French than Romanian, ditto the roundel. Perhaps identifying that type will help?

[researcher111]

Thanks for all feedback ,the item was listed under category Russian aircrafts , however the background aircraft is French and the scene must have taken place somewhere in Belgium or France ,however I can't ID the aircraft .

[dogsbodymk1]

Anyone else have any idea on the small aircraft in the rear? My knowledge of French and/or Belgian light aircraft in quite thin on the ground.


Chris

[Kutscha]

Didn't the Cyclone powered Hudsons have the carb inlet on top of the cowl?

[Graham Boak]

A quick Google for Lockheed 14 shows the intake to be visible on some aircraft but not on others.

[oquaig]

Anyone else have any idea on the small aircraft in the rear? My knowledge of French and/or Belgian light aircraft in quite thin on the ground.


Chris

The markings on the tail of the plane in the rear are French. The roundel is much harder to see, but there seems to be a darker outer ring like the French roundel. The Engine cowling does not match the Bloch 174-175 but the way the engine is mounted on the wing is similar. There were only 21 Bloch 175's in service in 1940.

[gilles collaveri]

For the fun, I placed this picture on a French forum and there were numerous exchanges on the subject.

People were puzzled and found it hard to identify these machines.

However, the result is that we would have a Lockheed 14 wing/engine,

with a Caudron (from the Phalène family) aircraft in the background.

So, picture very likely to be in France.

Cheers

GC

[gilles collaveri]

Have a look at this :

http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=63933 (http://www.aerostories.org/%7Eaeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=63933)

it is an analysis of the fin of the aircraft in the background. Thus confirming it is a Caudron aircraft.

it is in French but make an effort, very interesting;

GC

[gilles collaveri]

hi again,

Look at the link here under, it is in French but translation devices will help you, I bet the final answer is there.

No absolute certitude, but very likely to be THE bird.

Cheers

GC

http://www.aerostories.org/~aeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=63963 (http://www.aerostories.org/%7Eaeroforums/forumhist/aff.php?nummsg=63963)

[researcher111]

Gilles , thanks for the feedback which start shapping the answer to the puzzle