331 sqn EN786 FN-T

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Osprey Aircrafts of the Aces, Spitfire Mk V Aces features a profile of a Spit Vb, EN786 FN-T (Kaj Birksted) North Weald, June 1942.

I assume that some kind of photo reference exist to this profile but I haven't been able to track it down. Would any of you be able to help?

TIA, Mikkel Plannthin

[RossGmann]

Re your inquiry of 7th February, 2005 the following site http://www.markstyling.com/spitfiresmkv3.htm may be of interest

Kind regards

Ross

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Thanks Ross,
It makes me re-pose the original question regarding photoreference for the profile.

Mikkel

[Smithy]

I don't think he'll mind my saying this Mikkel but you need to contact LMLassen here as he is a bit of an expert on Kaj Birksted and has written an article on his Spits.

I'm sure if you PM him he won't mind.

[LMLassen]

Thanks Smithy - but I'm no expert on Birksted - only a keen amateur.

I think Mikkel and I've debated this online a few years back and I would really like to see any photographic evidence for this profile. And I think this one looks a bit like guesswork.

Lars

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Thanks for coming on-line by your self, Lars. I do not remember if we have discussed this very a/c, but I was sure that you'd answered the question, if you had the answer - or included it in your articles.

If someone's interested : I have not yet entered to full list of operational sorties by Birksted from to ORBs at my website, but the this says that he was operational in FN-T for the first time on 16 June 1942
http://danishww2pilots.dk/pilotsSorties.php?id=15

Suppose you could be right about the guesswork. Wouldt it have had a painted Norwegian flag?!?

Mikkel

[atckyrre]

Mikkel (and Lars),
I have not seen any pics of a Vb EN786 marked FN-T and I thought I'd seen just about every pic of Norwegian Vb's published. There's a rather famous picture of a lineup of 331 Sqn Spits dated May 3 1942 and although still with A1 rather than C1 roundels on the fuselage I suspect not much was changed when it comes to the appearance of the aircraft when Birksted started flying with the squadron. In the picture all visible Spits carry flags on the cockpit door and red-white-blue stripes around the gun covers.
While Birksted was Danish I still don't think his plane looked any different than the others. As a sidenote it appears from pictures that he wore a "Norway" patch on his left shoulder.

Regards,
Kyrre

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Thankt Kyrre,
EN786 arrived to 331 Sqn later than the aircraft in the line-up at Catterick, why I guess the looks of it could differ, but I agree that it most likely looks like these. Actually Birksted flew the first aircraft in the line-up, BL891 FN-S, on a number of occasions.

The original question was only posed since I presumed that a profile like this in an Osprey publication would have some kind of photographic reference, and since I had not seen such evidence.

Mikkel

[atckyrre]

Thankt Kyrre,
EN786 arrived to 331 Sqn later than the aircraft in the line-up at Catterick, why I guess the looks of it could differ, but I agree that it most likely looks like these. Actually Birksted flew the first aircraft in the line-up, BL891 FN-S, on a number of occasions.

The original question was only posed since I presumed that a profile like this in an Osprey publication would have some kind of photographic reference, and since I had not seen such evidence.

Mikkel

I thought perhaps with that serial that it was a late arrival and so of course there could be doubts about the apparence of this particular aircraft. However I get the impression that the ground crew echelon was very thorough, as is evident by their citations, thus I find it likely that the aircraft quickly ended up with a consistent look. Having said that I am not entirely sure if the gun striping practise was allowed to continue throughout the whole period.

Perhaps you could try posting a question on the IPMS Norway forum? Quite a few of our knowledgable model historians have ended up with this as their local hangout. You have to log in but that should be doable even for a Dane. :p (That is if you're not already an IPMS Denmark member. From what I've heard you may not have other gods... (tongue in cheek and all that. ;) )
www.ipmsnorge.org (http://www.ipmsnorge.org)

Kyrre

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Kyrre,
I might just try www.ipmsnorge.org. I am in fact a IPMS Denmark member, but consider myself an atheist in these terms :-)

Mikkel

[Mikkel Plannthin]

I have been wondering about the fate of the aircraft. Morgan & Shacklady as well as www.spitfite.ufk.net list the aircraft as lost / Cat E on 31 Oct 42 / 1 Nov 42, but still at 331 Sqn. But the 331 Sqn. ORB list the aircraft as operational for the last time at 9 Oct. 1942 in the hands of Birksted. Furthermore the ORB reports that the squadron is operational on Spit IX on 14 Oct. 1942.

Norman Franks FCL 1942 list the aircraft as lost to a JG26 Fw 190 in the hands of F/O Galway on 31 Oct 42. Galway is attached to 453 (RAAF) Sqn.

I suppose, therefore, that the aircraft is actually transferred to 453 Sqn., but that this might not have been noted on the movement card. Or that it was not officially transferred to this squadron before it suffered Cat E damage. Any comments to these theories?

Mikkel

[Jaap Vermeer]

Hello Mikkel,

19-6-1942,time,11.35,crashed;Vlissingen,Holland Spitfire V,BL637,331 Squadron, Lt K.T.Jacobson

19-6-1942,time,11.35,crashed;Westerschelde,Holland,Spit fire VB,AR298
FN-N,331 Squadron,2/Lt.J.E.Muller ,POW

I have also pictures from two Norwegian Pilots who crashed at Putten,Holland,both KIA,

Lauritz Othar Godø,24-2-1945
Oluf Ragnar Wagtskjold,28-2-1945

Oluf is stending next to his Spitfire.On the spinner you see the Norwegian Roundle/flag.I have also pictures of Oluf when he was a child,and letters he send to his uncle in the USA.His family has visit Putten to,

Most regards,Jaap Vermeer/Nijkerk/Holland

[LMLassen]

Mikkel

I have no further evidence to add to the demise of EH786 - except I've seen a photo (not a very good one) somewhere of a lineup of Spitfire Mk Vb marked FN-'x' etc, where the captions states these was ex-331 Sqn. aircraft just transferred to 'XXX' squadron.

I've been through my entire collection of books and magazines serveral times to relocate said picture - but no luck. (I'm - almost - certain that this is not something I've dreamt up :confused:)

If the caption is true it seems, that most 331 Spitfire V's was transferred in a bundle to a new unit.

I'm to tired to start digging into the ORB's and Morgan & Shacklady now - maybe tomorrow.

Lars

[Jaap Vermeer]

Mikkel / Lars,

Send a mail to Alf Johannessen in Norway ;

alfegil.johannessen@sandefjordbredband.net

He is an expert about the Norwegian Airforce in WWII.

Regards Jaap

[Mikkel Plannthin]

Thanks Jaap and Lars for further information.

Lars, I am pretty certain that the a/c went to 453 (RAAF) Sqn. Hence, it might be a line up of Spits from this unit.

Mikkel