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pointedeflèche
6th May 2006, 20:35
Hello,

I’m interested in the fate of 1st Lt. THIBERT MAURICE B. (Army Serial Number: O-675954)
He was from Wayne County, Michigan.
Can anyone confirm if he was with the 370th Fighter Group or with the 474th Fighter Group?
According to the MACR Database three P-38’s with the 370th FG and one with the 474th FG went missing that day.
Maurice B. Thibert was killed in action, May 23rd 1944 and was first buried by the Germans at the cemetery of Kortenberg, Belgium. My grandparents witnessed his P-38 go down as he came in straffing a German Flak site, located at the village of Erps-Kwerps. Hence my interest for this man. Any information regarding his fate or photographs of 1st Lt. Maurice B. Thibert or his P-38 would be much appreciated..

Regards,
Dirk

Alex Smart
7th May 2006, 04:08
hello Dirk,

Perhaps you could ask if anyone has copies of the four MACR's that you note , 5122;6497;6505 and 6506.
they may be able to send you copies.
As you also have the P-38 serial numbers of the a/c,
42-104319;42-104066;4268179 and 42-67278, that may bring in some info.

So far I could find no more than you already have.

God hunting

Alex

Luc Vervoort
7th May 2006, 09:46
Dirk,

1Lt George C.Knox,Jr of 474 FG was the pilot of 42-104319 and became a pow when his plane crashed in France.

I don't have much details about the other possible planes, but for 370 FG I found :
2Lt. Herbert Forman 401 FS killed in action
1Lt. Herbert Schultz became a pow
1Lt. Maurice B.Thibert 402 FS killed in action

In the Nara archives they have a German confiscated document about a P38 which crashed that day at Kortenberg (AV989/44) and another document about a similar plane which crashed at Steenokkerzeel.

Best regards

Luc

pointedeflèche
7th May 2006, 15:22
Hi Alex and Luc - many thanks for the information.

I ordered the MACR for Lt. Thibert. While awaiting this document, I’m on the look for any additional information. The Flak site Thibert attacked consisted of four 88mm guns and several 20mm guns. The guns were arranged on each side of the border between Erps-Kwerps and Steenokkerzeel. Two concrete flak pill-boxes still remain today.

Best regards,
Dirk

Flupke
7th May 2006, 20:37
Hello Dirk

1st Lt Thibert Maurice B."Moe"(KIA) O-675954 was flying P-38J-15-LO # 42-104066

370th FG 402nd FS MACR 6497

You better to ask for the IDPF , may I ask you the exact place of this crash ?
I have Erps-Kwerps /Steenokkerzeel /Kortenberg

Best regards
Phil

Luc Vervoort
7th May 2006, 22:29
Hi Phil and Dirk,

The Nara listing of confiscated German documents gives for that day 4 crashes of P38's:
(1) Kortenberg
(2) 18h15 Steenokkerzeel
(3) 18H35 in the sea near Koksijde
(4) 18h45 2,5 km se of Koln,Germany

Any idea which could be the other planes ?
Is the crash at Kortenberg the same as the crash of Steenokkerzeel ? These 2 villages are very close to each other.

Best regards

Luc

pointedeflèche
8th May 2006, 00:55
Hi Luc and Flupke,

Thibert’s P-38 crashed at a location where the boundaries of the three villages - Kortenberg , Erps-Kwerps and Steenokkerzeel - meet. ‘Runderenberg’ (toponyme) is the name of the spot where he came down. So, it’s hard to say on which territory the plane crashed. However, Maurice Thibert is registrated in the civil registration of Erps-Kwerps, death certificate, 1944 nr 28. This certificate also mentions Thibert was burried at the cemetery of Kortenberg. My grandparents always told me it had crashed north of the cemetery of Kortenberg , across the railway line Brussel-Leuven. I guess Thibert was buried at Kortenberg because its cemetery was near the crash site.

Luc - could it be that the crash listed at Kortenberg and the one listed at Steenokkerzeel are in fact one and the same? Thibert’s plane crashed just west of the water-tower of Steenokkerzeel, south of runway L 25 (Airport Zaventem) and north of the railway line Brussel-Leuven.

Flupke- how did you come by the nickname ‘Moe’? May I ask you what source you consulted?

Regards,
Dirk

Flupke
8th May 2006, 19:35
Hello Luc and Dirk

Many thanks for the crash place

I found the nickname of Thibert inside the Historical microfilm of the 370th FG A0797

Concerning the other P-38 loss for that day

Only one P-38 was loss over Germany the 2nd Lt Foreman Herbert (MIA)O-807304
370th FG 401st FS 42-68179 around 19H00 last seen W of Koblenz , so most probably the one near Köln

#42-67278 370FG 401st FS 1st Lt Schultz Herbert R. "Dutch"(POW)O-809199 around 19H00 near Calais MACR 6506


367FG 392nd FS Capt Hollingsworth James L.(KIA) O-792121
367FG 392nd FS 2nd Lt Ross Graham B. (KIA)O-804326

Both loss in the channel near the English coast

42-104319 474th FG 429th FS loss near St-Mère-Eglise 1st Lt Knox George C. Jr.(POW)O-755967 MACR 5122

Two other 370th FG P-38 were loss in the UK in forced landing flak damaged
2nd Lt Stephens Walter C.(RTD)O-809207 (402nd FS )and 2nd Lt Ogrin Joseph (RTD)O-689813 (401St FS )

Best regards
Phil

pointedeflèche
8th May 2006, 21:26
Many thanks Phil!

Do you have any details regarding the mission Thibert's group and squadron were assigned to fly, May 23rd 1944?

Regards,
Dirk

Flupke
9th May 2006, 10:06
48 P-38 where send to bombing a Marshalling yard at Koblenz and after the mission on the return they where authorized to attack anything who had some interest .
You will found a narrative on this mission pages 44-47 on the excellent book “the 370th FG in WWII “ Jay Jones .
I will see if there is something more inside the microfilm
Regards
Phil

pointedeflèche
9th May 2006, 14:51
Thanks Phil,

Do you have any idea what the individual call letter of Thibert's plane - s/n 42-104066 - was?

Dirk

Flupke
10th May 2006, 08:48
Unfortunately I haven’t the code letter, sorry