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Mirek Wawrzynski
2nd September 2006, 21:35
Hi
Some strange question, almost 50 years ago there was a big revolution in Hungary. This country had relived itself from Soviet domination for a while in October, November 1956.
Before revolution People Hungary had quite big air force of Mig-15, Mig-17, IL-28, An-2, Il-10, ect. I wonder if there were any comabtaction of this revolutionary air forces and what about Soviet air actions over Hungary to smash the Hungarian revolution

BTW
From Poland there were made small air lift/support. Polish military transport planes had made 15 flight to Budapest between 26 X-4 XI 1956, supplaing Hungarian goverment, people with medicine, blood, food. Poland had organised a great support/help for Hungarian in these days.

Regards,
MirekW

Peter Zambori
3rd September 2006, 12:52
Mirek,
the Hungarian Air Force flown only some recconaisance actions over Soviets ground forces with Jak-11 / Let C-11 planes mainly. No air combat between Hungarian and Soviet planes are known, some Hungarian planes were damaged by Ground fire (Jak-11, Jak-12 are known).

The Hungarian air forces made some actions against Hungarian civilians killing some people during late October accoring to kommunist political command, but it was quickly forbidden by the Air Force HQ (and some Hungarian pilots use their weapons not against civilians but shot into the air over empty territories because they did not agreed with this command, or simply sabotage this command since it was military crime). During these actions one Hungarian MiG-15bis ("red 805" c/n. 31530805 of 62nd Fighter Wing) collided with ground killing its pilot Istenes Elemér fhdgy.

The Soviet Air force lost at least to planes:
"Red 33" Mi-4T of 239. GvTAP. crashed into hill on November 7, 1956, killing 3 soviets, and
an IL-28 R was shot down over Budapest from 880. GvBAP. on November 8, 1956 killing its crew: cap. Alekszej Andrejevich Bobrovszkij pil. CO, cap. Dimitrij Dimitrijevich Karmisin navigator, Vlagyimir Jegorovich Jarcev. They
all received HSU posthumusly.

In early November some Tu-4 was ordered back by a clear minded soviet officer shortly after crossing the Roumanian-Hungarian border during a night bombing raid against Budapest.

Regards,
Péter

"Poland had organised a great support/help for Hungarian in these days."

Polak-Wegier dwa bratanki,
I do szabli i do szklanki.

(sorry, Polish language not my best)

Mirek Wawrzynski
3rd September 2006, 15:24
Hi
Thanks for this info, which are very helpful. Now in Poland, with the support of Hungarian ambassy and private people are planned to organise the 50 anniversary of Hungarian Revolution of 1956. There were a direct link betwen this events/things, which were in Poland in 1956 (VI-X) and the events of 23 X 1956 and later. So the Polish medical, food, ect support in the end of October, November were very spontanues and true among mmany Poles (not directed or organized by our communist party - PZPR). Anyway the transport flight to Budpaest were organised by the aproval of our comunist party and goverment.

There was such a infor that 3 Mi-4 with commandos were shot down by Hungarian A/A defence (maybe it was in 4-5 XI)

Soecon there are aslo infor that Hungarian pilot had defected to Yugoslavia in 1956 or 57 (?) - is this true or not?

Regrads
Mirek W
Your Polish is OK, :-)

Michal
3rd September 2006, 15:24
It is interesting that only one to me known air-combat took place over Slovakia. Almost 45 Ground Attack Ilyushin Il-10 (3 Squadrons of 32nd Ground Attack Air Regiment 34th Ground Attack Air Division) were ordered on October 31 1956 to the A/Fs Malacky, Trenčín and Prešov to secure border with Hungaria. On November 4 1956 Soviet planes at least two times broke Czechoslovak Air Space and in one incident Soviet MiG-17 damaged one Czechoslovaka Il-10 (32nd Air Regiment) which landed at Piešťany. Command of Czechoslovak Air Force after this incident banned flights within 34th Air Division.

Peter Zambori
3rd September 2006, 17:11
Hello Mirek,

the Hungarian Uprising started as a simpaty demonstration for Poland and Gomulka's policy, but quickly turns against the Hungarian Communist leaders and the AVH (and the Soviet presence in Hungary). Most of the poeople in Eastern Europe was fed up with "building the communism" and from 1953 onward there were a couple of demonstration (East Germany, Poland, Hungary) against it.

"There was such a infor that 3 Mi-4 with commandos were shot down by Hungarian A/A defence (maybe it was in 4-5 XI)"

Sorry, I have never heard about this. According to some rumors a Soviet MiG-15bis was shot down in October 1956
around Sólymár, but I can't confirm this.


"Soecon there are aslo infor that Hungarian pilot had defected to Yugoslavia in 1956 or 57 (?) - is this true or not?"

There were 12-14 defection (and hi-jacks) with airplane between 1949 and 1970, at least 3 of them to Yugoslavia, but none of them in 1956-1957. I have the closest January 19, 1954, it was a MiG-15 2red 25" landed in Yugoslavia. (A MALÉV Li-2P forced to defect to Ingolstadt/Germany in July 13, 1956.)

regards,
Péter

Peter Zambori
3rd September 2006, 17:16
Hello Michal,

thanks for this info. I have never heard about this earlier, something new!

Regards, Péter