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Richard T. Eger
2nd April 2005, 07:26
Dear Fellow Researchers,

I presume that Ken's book is in numerous hands by now, but there has been very little written about what people think about it, other than a lot of discussion about one color chip. This surprises me, as the book is probably the most anticipated publishing event for us in the last year, if not longer. Okay, guys, it's time to tell!!!

Regards,
Richard

rauhbautz
5th April 2005, 01:31
To all of those who have actually received the book, CONGRATUALATIONS!
I have just received another notice from Amazon that delivery will be again delayed as it is now listed as "not released". They have kindly allowed my order to stand until then. Anyone else in USA having the same problem, as it seems that it has been shipped to other locales.
Regards,
Bob

Von Alles
10th April 2005, 20:11
Dear Mr Eger, I am pleased to share comments with you about this long awaited book.

1) Not cheap
2) Average printing (I saw better)
3) most poctures already published
4) no profile
5) a lot of answers...but new questions ! *
6) a huge research work !
* For instance :
a) about the Me 262A landed is Switzerland (white 3) : Mr MERRICK, according to contempory color descriptions, says : 82/83 scheme. But color photos exist, with a brown color... This machine was restaured in Mûnich in 81/82 colors
b) What is the darkest color on a b&w pic : 81 or 83 ?
and so on.
Restauration from a B & W photo is more and more difficult...

Friendly,
Von Alles

Richard T. Eger
12th April 2005, 02:01
Dear Von Alles,

Thank you for your comments. I haven't seen the book myself, so can only respond to your comments:

1) True

2) Hmmm, that's odd. It was my understanding that Ken's book was to be printed on Ian Allan's new state-of-the-art press. Sounds like it wasn't, which is a shame.

3) I have mixed feelings about the situation of "most pictures already published". True, it would be nice to have new photos and there are authors that seem to be able to come up with them to entice us to buy their offerings. On the other hand, they aren't all that easy to come by. About a year ago I paid a very handsome sum of money through eBay to purchase Me 262 photos from Ken Bokelman's estate. In the end, much to my surprise (and chagrin), I found that probably 95% or more of the photos had been published before in Smith and Creek's monumental 4-part opus. Clearly, S&C had scrounged until there was "essentially no more to be found". Oh, more will surface, but the dilligence of their search became quite apparent.

4) I assume you mean color profiles. It's an author's choice. I am sure that Ken wanted his work to be as authoritative as possible and utilizing color profiles enters in an area of subjectivity, something he may have wished to avoid. What you do have in their place are accurately rendered reproductions of actual paint colors, albeit there was a mix-up in one of the chips.

5) What is presented is the lifetime culmination of one man's extensive research, perhaps the current last word on the subject. Even then, there may remain unknowns.

6) I concur. I'd like to hear more on this aspect.

5) a) I've seen the color photos of the Dubendorf Me 262 and have been left with the impression that they are rather faded with age. I wouldn't hang my hat on the brown color in those photos.

5) b) The darkness of a color on a b&w photo has been the subject of enormous previous discussion on TOCH!. Many attribute anomalies to the type of film used. In essence, I tend to doubt that you can get a clearcut answer to your question. Clearly, you recognize this from your last comment.

Thank you for taking the time to give your assessment. I'd like to hear from others on the subject.

Regards,
Richard

Nick Beale
12th April 2005, 14:24
Re the insatiable appetite for new photos - I hope that readers would be able to give KM due credit for new (and better) interpretations of ones that may well be familiar.

Also, it ought to be recognised that the photos are there to illustrate what the text is saying and often it's photos you already know that will do that job best.

Von Alles
12th April 2005, 21:22
Hello and thank you to all.

I did want to criticize Mr MERRICK when I said that most of the pictures was already published . Of course, they are used in this book to illustrate the text.
It is the same thing for the profiles. But people who don't buy the book for the moment have to know that . I was not disappointed by this book, which very complementary of UHLMANN's book. Some informations are great. Maybe, during these years, I mystified myself in thinking Luftwaffe camouflages more easy to decript. I am ffeling like in 1977 I discovered a Kookaburra book about Luftwaffe colors writen by SMITH & GALLASPY...

Good evening
Von Alles

markojeras
15th April 2005, 23:08
I got the book only recently and first impression is :bow:

I am happy to see all that photos in ONE book (I do not have some 50+ books in which some photos have been published before), but I bought the book because the text and color chips.

The print of the book is traditional raster type, very good, but new technology of the FM raster is much better and I am surprised to see the book printed in 'old' fashion.

There is no need for profiles in this book, there are original 'factory' camouflage drawings in the book. That is what I wanted to see.

At the end, only one question: when will the second part be out?

Now, back to reading the book :)

With best regards,

Marko Jeras

Jukka Juutinen
16th April 2005, 03:04
How about paper quality? Given the fact that the book is heavily illustrated and is expensive, the buyer must be able to expect premium quality paper, like Galerie Art Gloss 115 g. I am not on the payroll on M-real´s Äänekoski paper mill, this paper is simply superb (the best Finnish aviation journal [Suomen Ilmailuhistoriallinen lehti] is printed on this) and should be mandatory for all non-pulp throw away books. It meets strictest archival standards, i.e. RA´s claim of glossy paper not meeting such standards is nonsense.

Ruy Horta
16th April 2005, 10:58
Personally I believe the lack of reaction is caused to large extend by having to wait for Volume 2, like Marko pointed out. Although I have glanced at the pages, reading some paragraphs to get a feel for the text, I've decided NOT to read the work until it is joined by volume 2.

Which is not a bad thing :)

The quality is similar to other Ian Allan/Classic publications, the merger seems to have had a good influence on quality control. The graphic content is good and would be new to many and certainly functional to most.

I love the way each chapters is numbered by a "mini number profile".

The paint charts are very good, down to texturing (cannot wait to get my greedy paws on the late war set).

Althoug proof is in eating the pudding, I have full confidence that this work will pass the mark.

What I am happy about is the fact that Merrick's work did not turn out to be a re-worked version of his original, nor an attempt to copy Ullmann, but having mentioned these it is clear that we have been spoiled.

A shame really... :rolleyes:

Ah, the waiting, terrible!!

:mh:

Jukka Juutinen
16th April 2005, 13:03
But how is the paper? I mean that my latest Classic book On Special Missions is printed on poorer paper than used by Squadron/Signal, yet Tony Buttler´s book on British Secret Projects (vol 3) from Midland Publishing (another Ian Allan company) is printed on nice glossy paper. It is interesting that the International Air Power Review is printed on very glossy paper and has superb photo reproduction (much better than any Classic book I have seen so far), yet sells for some 70% cheaper per page than Classic (meaning the relative impact of paper cost is far greater with the IAPR).

Ruy Horta
16th April 2005, 15:19
The paper is similar to that of previous Ian Allan/Classic publications, it is good enough. Perhaps a little less classy as some other publications, but if you shop you can find all these books very reasonably priced, so reasonably that profit margin must be small indeed.

Point I'd like to make is that the quality of this publication is good, although you will find better and you will find people who'll criticize this latest work because of the paper chosen. In that regard it is the same as with the included photos, for most these are wonderful and/or functional, for some it will be a matter of criticism.

Perhaps we are too spoiled?

I'll save my criticism until I've read the books, for it is the content that has kept me looking forward to this publication for quite a number or years.

Just my 2c.

Jukka Juutinen
16th April 2005, 16:36
Well, I don´t care if photos are previously seen provided they are:
-well printed on good paper
-they have substantial and correct captions

A good example of proper captioning is Joshua Stoff´s "Pictorial History of WW Two American Aircraft Production" in which the captions provide substantial info instead of "Ju-88A-4 PU+KE".

Pierre Alfaro
17th April 2005, 20:06
Hi all,
I have a question about this excellent book: what are the "yellow, white and pink :confused: tactical markings introduced during the Battle of Britain" (see p.150, just above the winter camouflaged Emil)?

John Vasco
21st April 2005, 15:49
A couple of corrections which I know Ken would not mind me posting. On page 148, S9+LK of Balthasar Aretz is a Bf 110 E, not 'D'. Also, on page 146, bottom photo, S9+PH, with the standard rear fuselage, is a Bf 110 C-6.

Franek Grabowski
21st April 2005, 17:23
Ahem, minor detail, nonetheless I think we should aware Ken of all such thingies, so he can consider putting them on an errata.

Richard T. Eger
28th April 2005, 16:44
Dear Fellow Luftwaffe Researchers,

I forwarded onto Ken all of the above comments. He was thankful to receive them. The following are his e-mail replies to them received by me on April 28th as well as a preview of what will be in the upcoming Volume Two:

"I am going to try and get a reasonable answer to you while I have a
short breathing space. The edited hard copy of Volume Two text and
captions went off by courier Tuesday afternoon.

Now, thank you very much for the collage of comments on the book, and
specifically your very supportive comments.

The comments about printing quality were interesting. I personally
thought it was quite good (but then I had been having nightmares about
Ian Allan's brand new, all singing and dancing printing press and my
book being part of the guinea pig run).

The words about the Swiss machine are a good example of the problems
with colour photography. 83 contains brown, and the colour film/
printing process used for the published photos shifted that emphasis. I
relied on Ken Bokelmann's hands on research with the parts in storage,
which clearly showed the 82/83 scheme, and his subsequent letters to
me. (Now there is a loss that will be hard to make up, great bloke.)

The comments about photographs is one that you have remarked on in my
favour. The simple answer is that despite the huge reference resources
put at my disposal, certain photographs are the only ones that
illustrate a specific point. And just as importantly, many of the
previously published photographs have incorrect information attached to
them - something that has influenced not just comments and ideas, but
also model kit information in some instances. Nick also picked up on
this point nicely.

As for profiles being absent - for general books on aircraft types,
such as the Bf 109 of Fw 190, etc., high quality art work is fine, but,
as stated in my introduction, to use my interpretation of a single
aircraft as the basis for briefing even the finest of illustrators, in
a book where the subject is focused on camouflage and all its attendant
problems, was, to my mind, counter productive. Often one can only see
an aircraft from an angle, so how accurate can anyone define the
camouflage obscured by other parts of the aircraft (or people)? What
about the wing top surfaces? or lower surfaces? What was on the other
side of the aircraft? How also can I define for the artist the correct
amount of thinned out spray around mottling - and remember this is all
to be based on a black and white photograph. It's nice to have a general
impression, but not enough definition would be possible for this book's
main focus.

The paper quality discussion is outside my field but I would
appreciate you passing on to Ruy that his comments were the practical
ones and I appreciate them.

Questions about tactical markings are dealt with extensively in Volume
two, about 40 pages. The text of this next volume also is larger and
covers - Five-character military codes; Four-character military codes;
Fighter and ground attack unit markings; Tactical and special purpose
markings; Night fighters; Ground attack aircraft; Bombers, Maritime
aircraft; Reconnaissance aircraft; Civil registrations;
Überführungskennzeichnen and Stammkennzeichnung; Civil, commercial and
military transport aircraft; Training; liaison and light aircraft;
Externally carried stores; Maintenance and safety markings,
Werknummern; Balkenkreuz and Hakenkreuz. Plus of course, Herr Kiroff's
extensive technical discourse on paint structures and chemistry, along
with the final camouflage colours and some extra secondary colours.

Hopefully anyone who has both volumes will have a reasonably
comprehensive breakdown of camouflage and markings across every
possible aspect of the Luftwaffe (and also some civil aircraft aspects
as civil and military aircraft are entwined in the history of the
Luftwaffe).

I note that some commentators have said that they are waiting to
receive the second volume before starting to digest what is in the work,
possibly a sensible idea, though each volume does stand alone. However,
it was inevitable that some areas cross both volumes, such as the
colour chips and supporting comments. To have tried to cram all that
information into one volume would have distorted the sequences to the
point of total bafflement for many readers (and myself).

There have also been problems with sequencing of colour chips used for
secondary applications (not related to camouflage) on Card 3. Some were
ready, but others were delayed because of locating difficult to find
chemicals or minerals needed for formulae. Jürgen Kiroff did a superb
job, but even he could not perform miracles to a set time schedule -
and delays were already causing fair comment. A short section at the
beginning of volume two will bring readers up to date on colours that
seem to have little supporting information, like the three primers
shown on Card 3, the first is for metal, the second for fabric and the
third for wood. The FAS sequence of six colours is explained in full in
volume two, but some of the primer lacquers (with RAL numbers) will be
clarified in the Addendum to volume two. Not much to say about them
other than the basic descriptions."

Regards,
Richard