Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
an insignificant friendly fire case and probably without fatal consequences but to confirm that one should check the sub’s log. But also probably fairy common case of friendly fire.

Sept. 3rd 1942 Blenheim P/404 [Sqn] “at 0852/PCTU 1448 attacked fully-surfaced submarine, co. 65, speed 8 knots. A/C ‘P’ dived to attack, and fired a burst of 6 secs from 700 yds. On approaching nearer, captain recognised marking on submarine as N78 or N73, and ceased fire at 300 yards. Submarine was unescorted, and made no recognition signal. Some hits were estimated on conning tower. Submarine submerged after attack. No adverse effects of attack were seen…“

Source: Sumburgh ORB. Form 540

BTW, RAF sunk a Soviet sub, ex-RN vessel turned to Soviets, on its way from GB to Murmansk. According to British investigation the sub was well outside its safety corridor when the attack happened. If You don’t have info on this I can dig out some details on it on naval side.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

The submarine in question was V.1 (ex HMS/M SUNFISH) sunk by an 86 Sqn Liberator 27/7/44 during her delivery voyage. According to Rohwer's 'War at sea 1939-1945' the submarine was '60 miles off her designated course'.

Regards

Steve

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

on a note that i read in a book, sometime ago,in north afrika,,42 43.some USA or english troops were in a aera were some germans troop transports, was about? then,a small sqn, of liberater bombers were to bomb, there depo .but as they were in the wrong aera they started dropping there bombs, on allied troops,....
then a sqn, of RAF mosquito bombers were ordered to shoot the liberaters down, whitch they did,,can anyone confirm this story,or is it ,true.
gary,,,

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Since Mosquito bombers weren't armed, they would have had a bit of a problem in shooting anyone down.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

hi, thanks.
gary,

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Sorry about that, it would have been a great story. Perhaps there were fighters in the air, or on high alert, that could have taken on the B-24s. But, it seems to me that the shooting down of several B-24s would have been extensively recorded and reported. And, the B-24 was tough enough not to go down that easily, especially when in a combat formatiion.

Re: Friendly fire WWII spitfires kingcombe
 

hi, whats the story behind kingcombe its new to me and im a battle britain fan,,why did they dislike him,cheers gary

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian,


in the eveining of 10.08.41 between 08-09 hours the Pe-8 serial 42045 from the 432 TBAPflown by capt.Tjaguczin was hit by own Flak during climbing-up. He tried to return to his base in Puszkino but was attacked by own fighters. From 11 crew members only 6 survived by bailing out.
Another victim of own fighters was Pe-8 serial 42107 from the746 AP ADD shot down on the 09.02.1943.

Regards

Robert

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks guys for all the latest contributions - they just keep coming!

I am hoping to have Volume I (1939-1942 Northern/Eastern Europe) ready within a few weeks/months. However, I lack friendly fire incidents for the Luftwaffe and Red Air Force during 1942 - hopefully someone out there can provide some details, please.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Csaba

Will your book be in English? If so, I wish to order a copy, but if not, would you provide details of the friendly fire incidents, please?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
have You see the page on Soviet Spits, http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...spit/index.htm? In it the writer mentioned some friendly fire cases, one of which resulted a crash-landing.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Juha

Super stuff

I trust you are well
Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hedley Everard of RAF 17 Squadron shot down a "navy Zero" that turned out to be a Hurricane photo plane at Magwe, Burma, in March 1942. See Chris Shores's Bloody Shambles, I think volume two.

Freeman Ricketts of the AVG Flying Tigers shot down a USAAF B-25 Mitchell bomber in China, July 1942 I think it was (and the B-25 pilot reported he'd been shot down by two Zeroes!). See my Flying Tigers: Claire Chennault etc.

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many thanks Oldpilot!

I knew about the first but not about the second.

Great stuff.

Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi all,

Just joined the forum, hope you don't mind me jumping in on this thread for a bit of help.

"72 sqn friendly fire incident 30 Jul 42"

Can anyone provide details of the shooting down of a 72 Sqn Spitfire over the Channel by other Spitfires on 30 July 42? Yours aye Tom

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Tom and welcome

As you may gather, I am doing research on friendly fire incidents but I don't have anything noted for 30 July 1942 for 72 Squadron. What can you tell me about this incident?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian,

I am researching 72 Sqn and I found the reference to the friendly fire incident in the RAF 'Air Power' Journal in an article about friendly fire. It listed several incidents, the 72 one included. I cannot find any other reference to this incident and it is not in the squadron F540. I am suspicious it may be a print error and perhaps 74 or 92 Sqn? The reference give the shooting as by Spitfires in the English Channel.

Yours

Tom

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Possibly refers to Typhoon R7853 of 56 Squadron. Shot down by Spitfires off Dungeness on July 30th, 1942. The downed pilot was Lieutenant Erik Haabjoern (native of Norway) and he was rescued.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Kapt Mikhail Gavrilovich Martyshchenko (Inspector on Air Gunnery VMF) former 5 IAP VMF 18 total victories was flying a combat mission with the 4 GIAP VMF (KBF) in the Ropshi area on the La-5. Martyshchenko shot down Kapt Ivan Leontyevich Tvorogov's La-5 believing it to be a FW-190. Martyshchenko was arrested and wasn't released until 1956. Tvorgov who had 4 personal victories and 13 group survived the shoot down.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many thanks Nokose, another new one for my records. Do we know a date?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Tom

Are you able to list the other friendly fire incidents listed in 'Air Power'? It would be interesting for me to learn if I have all recorded.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Sorry about that it's 11Apr43. If you use a translator and go to www.aces.boom.ru you can read the story under this ace.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello again
You very probably know this already but just in case. Japanese pilots in P-40s against JAAF's Sally IIs
http://www.j-aircraft.com/captured/c...ptured_p40.htm

Kippis
Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Nokose

Hi Juha, yes I do have this but thanks for remembering me!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

B-17 bombing the wrong side of the fronline

22 February 1943, Tunisia, late stage of the Kasserine battle:

The hide-and-seek weather also hamstrung Strategic Air Force. Out of the missions airborne, three returned their bombs, and a wandering formation of B-17's, lost in the clouds, strayed 100 miles north and bombed friendly
Souk-el-hba.

Source:
http://www.ibiblio.net/hyperwar////AAF/II/AAF-II-5.html

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

"Useful" friendly fire !!!

Around the 10th of October 1943 Wensleydale was ordered to first find and then escort the Free French Submarine Minerve (P26) back to port. Ken England remembers that "the submarine was transmitting the morse letter 'A' on a known frequency and by manning our MF D/F set we were able to get a fix on the sub's position". This submarine had been a victim of 'friendly fire' and was unable to dive. A Liberator, piloted by Mick Ensor spotted a submarine about 300 miles west of Brest. The submarine was attacked with eight 5"rockets. One 25lb rocket entered the starboard side just below the external torpedo tubes. Two men were killed. One by the rocket head and another by a fragment of the pressure hull. The submarine was off course and not reported in the area. Pilot Mick Ensor (see Enser's Endevour, by Vincent Orange) was cleared of any blame. The damage to Minerve proved very useful to navy intelligence. Many photographs were taken of the damage, angle of entry etc. The projectile was said to be virtually undamaged, but was unfortunately thrown overboard as it was considered likely to explode.

Source:
http://www.hmswensleydale.co.uk/1943.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

How to consider this one: an Allied ship mistaking an Allied aircraft for an Axis ships...

Walrus X9529
19? The aircraft was acquired by the Royal Air Force (RAF).
19? The aircraft was allocated to 293 Squadron.
10Sep1944 The aircraft was sunk while taxying by a Royal Navy MTB which mistook it for a German E-Boat.

Source:
http://www.cnapg.org/walrus.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

2 instances:
Reportably two of KG 200 aircraft-B-17 "Punchboard" #42-39974 and B-24 "Sunshine" #42-52106 were lost to German AA 6 April 1945
In Edward Jablonski's "Airwar" Ernest Shipman 31stFG/307th Figther Sq {P-51 Pilot} shot down by P-38 july 30.1944 {Reference only}

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Laurent and Nuppol - most interesting.

Laurent - still hoping to hear from you!!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

23Apr41 Greece
Three Ju-88's of I/LG1 fire on a Bf-109E of Stab/JG77 flown by Ofw Erwin Sawallisch. Sawallisch's Bf-109 is hit and he returns fire killing one of the crew of one Ju-88. Sawallisch is then able to force land at his base at Krumovo. (Reference: Air War For Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete 1940-41 by C. Shore and B. Cull w/ N. Malizia)

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks for that Nokose - I had forgotten that incident - and I was one of the main authors!!

Cheers
Brian (aka B. Cull)

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
I haven’t had time yet to search the German book from my attic but by chance came across following friendly fire cases

26 March 1942 a Pe-3 from 95. AP was shot down by a Hurricane from 122. IAD . Kpt. F. G. Kristjakov and St.lt. I. A. Gontsarov both killed
7 Aug 1942 a Yak-1 from 20. IAP was shot down by a I-16 near Vajenka 1 a/f, pilot I. S. Fomin was killed

Source: Hannu Valtonen: Luftwaffen Pohjoinen Sivusta

HTH
Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Super stuff, Juha, many thanks.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

BTW Brian, in Dénes Bernád’s et al very good From Barbarossa to Odessa Vol. 1, which is in any case well worth of its price, there are a number of “friedly fire” cases.

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

It is correct, Shipman's Mustang was shot down by a P-38 over Hungary, the pilot baled out and was taken POW (Shipman was an ace, after the war he become an actor)

My "Ace of Hearts" Squadron history book contains 5 air to air friendly fire accidents in details from summer, 1941 over the Soviet Union (and one ground to air as well)

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks for the info, Juha, I have just ordered a copy of Denes Bernad's book.

Csaba - I can't find your 'Aces of Hearts' on Amazon.uk or Amazon.com
Is it in English? If not, perhaps you will kindly provide details of the friendly fire incidents you indicate.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian,

I sent you a pm.

See you soon,

Csaba

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello Brian
on 25 Dec 1939 SLt Storozhakov from 26 IAP claimed a Gamecock near Lake Suvanto in Karelian Isthmus. Next day it proved out that the downed Gamecock was in fact an I-15bis from 59 IAB, which had made a forced landing in territory occupied by Soviet forces. On the same mission the formation of 8 I-16s also shot at an R-5.

Source: Keskinen - Partonen - Stenman Suomen Ilmavoimat Finnish Air Force 1928 – 40

Juha

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Juha

Excellent - that's another beer I owe you! Keep 'em coming!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian, I Have Been Doing Research On RCAF 414 Over The Last Few Years. My Father Was S/L In 43 And 44. I Had The Orb For 41-45 At One Point. I Recall Reading About A Friendly Fire Dogfight The Resulted In Two Pilots ( RAF And RCAF) Being Killed And The Other Two Wingman Being Witnesses At The Subsequent Inquiry. In Reviewing The Copies Of The ORB Pages That I Retained I Can't Seem To Find It. Has Anyone Told You About This Incident ?
Ron