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- - eBAy: Captured german planes (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=45190)

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiS (Post 300259)

https://i.ibb.co/QpSJ6cV/Bf-109-464.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Photo-U...AAAOSwhodf8S0G

Bf 109 E-7 taken at Gotha. "Schwarze 2" on cowling. NG+PZ.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Nice find Snautzer, thanks !

We have here either Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 491 171 or 491 241 "Weisse 14", 13./JG 301, Loburg, Germany, before 19 March 1945.

JG 301 lost 2 March 1945 a staggering 20 Bf 109 G-10's, all Erla built. Two of them are recorded as "Bauchlandung nach Luftkampf" at Loberg, north of Leipzig. Those are W.Nr. 491171 and W.Nr. 491241. Alas their tactical markings are not recorded, nor the name of their pilots. Given the landscape which does match, and the way they were lost, one can be confident that "Weisse 14" is either W.Nr 491 171 or 491 241.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

I think that there is a horizontal bar of the II. Gruppe on the aft fuselage.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

The horizonal bars have a different meaning for JG 301. Depends on the bar colour - red in this case. Just check the Ta 152H threads.

Regards
RolandF

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snautzer (Post 300268)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Org-Photo-U...wAAOSwKwZf8S6o

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/attach...28-png.607625/

Am I stupid if I write Rudi already did post it? Hmm ? ;) post #4240
Cheers,
Franck.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RolandF (Post 300280)

The horizonal bars have a different meaning for JG 301. Depends on the bar colour - red in this case. Just check the Ta 152H threads.

Regards
RolandF

Olivier Menu shared his work on this back in 2005: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...&highlight=301

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Post #4239 could be Bf 109 G-6/U4, W.Nr. 449726, 21 + ∣. Found at Le Bourget, crash-landed and looted.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 300300)

Post #4239 could be Bf 109 G-6/U4, W.Nr. 449726, 21 + ∣. Found at Le Bourget, crash-landed and looted.

Nick, here my thoughts:

Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 440 726 (?) "Schwarze 21", Stab III./JG 26 (?), Le Bourget, France, Autumn 1944.

This WNF built Bf 109 G-6 was found wrecked and is recorded in A.I.2(g) Report 257 as Bf 109 G-6 W.Nr. 449 726 "Schwarze 21", from an unknown unit. The W.Nr. reported in 1944 is obviously a typo for W.Nr. 440 726, from a known WNF built Bf 109 G-6/U4 batch. The tactical markings of "Schwarze 21" are consistent for a Stab III./JG 26 machine.
This unit was never based there, but Le Bourget hosted Flugzeugleitstelle (Flugzeugschleuse) Luftflottenkdo. 3, a unit responsible for delivering new and repaired machines to their units between 1943 and 1944. This might be the explanation why this JG 26 wrecked machine was found there.

I of course stand corrected.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 300305)

It may well have been the replacement for Bf 109 G-6, W.Nr. 440179, black 21 of Stab III./JG 26 which was damaged in bombing at Nancy on 25 May 1944.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 300306)

It may well have been the replacement for Bf 109 G-6, W.Nr. 440179, black 21 of Stab III./JG 26 which was damaged in bombing at Nancy on 25 May 1944.

Thanks for that link, Nick; much appreciated.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann (Post 300308)

Thanks for that link, Nick; much appreciated.

Cheers
Marc

I should add that the Black 22 caught in the raid on Nancy could be the one in the well-known Bundesarchiv photo (e.g. Frappé, « La Luftwaffe face au Débarquement Allié » page 106). It has markings like the wreck of Black 21 and the Erla Haube.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 300315)

Nick,

Thanks again for your precision. I suggest we take this part of our discussion over on the Ghostbombers updates thread as I notice a discrepancy between your Nancy ULTRA data and the data published by Jochen Prien, Peter Rodeike and Gerhard Stemmer in their II./JG 27 publication.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RudiS (Post 300372)

https://i.ibb.co/S5PxKft/Ar-234-006.jpg

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-Photo-...YAAOSwS2Bf9etS

Hi Rudi,

This photo was probably taken by a member of 451st Bomb Squadron (see the seller's other photos) that was stationed at Le Culot, Belgium. On 24 June 1945, Col. Harold E. Watson flew Ar 234 W.Nr 140489 "8H+EH" of 1.(F)/33 [USA5] to Le Culot from Grove, Denmark to refuel on his way to Melun, France.

Best regards,

Jim

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Thanks for the info, Jim.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Post #4274. So, the sign with the necessary information appears after all this time.

Thank you Rudi.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Greeting everyone,
I don’t mean to be a broken record, but once again Post #4275 is another example of a terrible copy of a Merle C. Olmsted original photo.
Respectfully,
Steve Sheflin

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwest2 (Post 300671)

Post #4274. So, the sign with the necessary information appears after all this time.

Thank you Rudi.

well known images exist of this sign, eg

https://pixpast.com/stock-photo/2nd-...160-10695.html