Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian,
Do you have the attack on Russian submarine(s) in 1944 by Liberators of 86 Squadron?

Bruce

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Bruce

Not in any detail - just a note. What can you provide?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I'll put something together.

Regards,
Bruce

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Me again, Brian. Do you have the six Bostons attacking a group of MGBs in the Sicilian Channel on 10n June 1943?

Bruce

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Bruce

Now, that is a new one! Actually, I'm still working on Volume I, which is nearing completion and should be out before too long.

Perhaps it's easier for you to e-mail the information to me? briancullauthor@fsmail.net

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I'm not sure if you consider this one friendly fire or not. During the the night of the 9Jul43 in the Bolkhov region the Russian U-2 flown by Junior Lieutenants Viktorov and Liberman of the 638 NBAP 284 NBAD had their biplane knocked from the sky by a Il-4 of the Soviet ADD while on bombing raids. Both parachuted to safety. The Il-4 raids seemed to cause the U-2 raids to be exposed by bombing in the same period and location.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Nokose

What do you mean by 'knocked from the sky'?

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian, The U-2 biplanes flew at 600-1000m. The source that I translated stated they encountered in midair. I assume that they collided which caused them to take to the chutes.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

On 04Jul43 16:30 a Ju 88 by mistake released it's bomb load in the Butovo Gertsovka region onto the 11th Panzer Division, killing 5 and wounding 7. The front lines weren't clear in the area which the 11th was helping take some heights before the Kursk battle. The Ju 88 was possibly from KG3 which was giving air support.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Nokose

Many thanks for the latest.

Please keep advising me of any friendly fire incidents you may find.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Still later in the afternoon of the 4July43 the 11th Panzer Division was hit again but this time by Ju 87's at Butovo who missed their target of Cherkass located 3-4 kilometers to the north. Not a good day for the Panzer troops.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Nokose

Excellent!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

12July43
Lt Gomolko of the 240 IAP was returning from a mission in his La-5 (#2952) in the Priznannogiy region. Had the misfortune of approaching one of his own Il-2 Shturmovik's head-on. He was blasted from the sky. The list doesn't give his fate.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Again my thanks Nokose

Every snippet is a gem.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Nice to hear from you again Six-Nifty .50s

Yes, a most unusual incident. I will research further. Many thanks

Cheers
Brian

Friendly fire April 21/43 - 214 Squadron, Target Rostock
 

My father's crew had a friendly fire incident on the approach to Rostock when they were shot up by the Stirling just in front of them, wounding the Pilot in the leg. The Flight Engineer flew the aircraft while my father (the Navigator) who had left medical school for the RCAF, patched up the Pilot who was able to land the aircraft at their home station at RAF Chedburgh. He recalled the incident in a letter to his Pilot, Geoff Shattock, in the 1980's.
"" It was on April 20, and we took off at 21:57 on `N for nuts'. Weather was very good and we could get a landfall as we crossed the coast somewhere around Cromer . Got good Gee fixes for a while then took some Polaris shots when we ran out of Gee range. We were routed a long way north, and crossed the Danish coast pretty well on track at nearly 56 degrees N., at the south end of Rinkabing Fjord. There was some flak, and by this time you had come right down to treetop height. From there on it got quite exciting, probably one of the most exciting times of my life. Having got a good pinpoint at the coast and having no further nav aids, I came up and sat with you prepared to map read us the rest of the way. We could see the tank defences along the coast (mainly big sort of angle iron contraptions). The trees went by in an alarming way, and we could see doors being flung open and even people standing in the light of their homes. Dickie remarked that we could almost tell people we'd been in Denmark rather than over it. We crossed Denmark fairly fast (Jutland , that is), and crossed Fyn, Langland and Lolland. These are what they are called now but I'm not sure they were that on my chart. At one point there was a lot of light flak around and some of it was coming right at us. I should recall that the term `light flak ` refers to the type (Bofors with tracer) rather than to the severity! Hunt was in the front turret and started yelling "Those sons of bitches!", and opened fire on them . Tommy and Dickie joined in and I'm not sure whether we shut them up or just drew attention to ourselves. As we reached the open Baltic Sea, you climbed to about 3000 ft., and all was clear as day. I could see all the land marks and we turned on about 200 T. to Rostock, soon in sight. However, as we drew closer, it was obvious that Jerry had put up a massive smoke screen over the whole area; in fact, the "Bomber Command War Diaries", a remarkable publication, states that as a result, the bombing was scattered. This was no town blitz- we were after the Heinkel Works. As we started our target run as best we could, I saw a Stirling weaving a bit ahead of us. Then there was a rather unpleasant bang, and you said something like "Oh, Jesus Christ!" Then you said `take that!', referring to the control stick. Then you called "Hunt, come up here quick!" As the only even remotely qualified second pilot, he let the bombs go and came up and took over the controls. I gave Hunt a course to steer. I told him to steer 015M for 10 minutes and then turn on 315. Then I went and found a flashlight and got your flying boot off. It was full of blood and there was a hole through your leg below the knee. I got the medical kit and put a shell dressing on it, but didn't try any fancy hemostasis because I was sure it would quit bleeding O.K. All this messing around in the dark took a while, about 20-25 minutes, and when I got back up with Hunt he was still steering 015 - either he hadn't heard me or didn't have a watch. I looked out and could see clearly the Copenhagen area right ahead. So we turned on about 270 and headed for home. In answer to your recent comment, I can't imagine that anyone even remotely thought of bailing out. The trip back was pretty uneventful. You described the amount of pain you had as about equal to a severe toothache. You soon took over the controls and declined any more help. I offered to shoot some codeine into you with some very neat little gadgets in the medical kit, but you were obviously scared it might destroy your razor-sharp awareness. Smitty radioed ahead something like: Pilot wounded; all O.K. When we got to base the Waaf on Flying Control asked: "What is the nature of your wounds?" and you answered that you had a bullet in the calf of your leg. You set it down perfectly and were whisked away to the hospital. Next day the ground crew found that ONE bullet had cut off the cockpit lighting, cut out the hydraulic exactor control of one port engine, gone through your leg, mangled some of my charts, and still had enough zip to make a dent in the armour plating beside my navigation table. It was a bad night for 3 Group (20/04/1943) - we lost 8 of 80 planes and didn't do a good job. Also a lot of people who got back were shot up with some killed including one gunner from 214." (Benjamin Oldroyd, 22, rear gunner in Sgt. Gray's crew - shot in head). They were flying Stirling III BK659 coded "BU-N" of 214 Squadron.
Regards
Dave Wallace

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Excellent Dave

I have extracted this and placed it in Volume II of the forthcoming three-part series.

Many thanks
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hello, Brian,

A detailled account of a Wellington flying into British balloons on 7 August 1942:

The Vickers Wellington IC R1075 of 16 OTU, Upper Heyford was engaged on a night navigation exercise. The crew consisted of P/O John Maura, pilot, P/O Percy Leslie Moxey (navigator), Sgt Norman Geoffrey Crabtree (Wop/Ag), Sgt Saddler, Sgt Russell and LAC Ronald Leonard Smith who appears to have gone along as a passenger. The aircraft and crew were attached to C flight.

The aircraft had taken off at 2207 hours on the 6th of August 1942. The exercise had been uneventful and had taken the crew to the Isle of Man. Over Douglas thet turned for home at 0030 hours and set course for Worcester. They followed a course of 160 degrees (C) with an ETA at the coast of 0106 hours and ETA Worcester at 0143 hours. Their altitude was 5000 feet and P/O Maura described the weather as quite thick and on consultation with his navigator reduced altitude to 3000 feet at around 0100 hours. As they were still in cloud P/O Maura reduced altitude to 2000 feet after first confirming with P/O Moxey that it was safe to do so. This brought them just below very thick cloud but the visibility remained very poor. At approx 0110 hours the navigator requested a QDM from th wireless operator and at approx 0115 hours the air bomber and navigator identified a place to port as Wolverhampton. The navigator then asked P/O Maura to circle to port while he checked his position. P/O Maura reported that no ballon squeaker was heard by him. This was a device by which ballon barrages emitted a signal which would be picked up by aircraft in the vicinity alerting the crew to the balloon’s presence. He comments that even at 2000 feet they were in intermittent cloud. P/O Maura started his turn at about 0125 hours, the aircraft almost immediately striking balloon cables, followed 30 seconds later by another impact which he believed to be another cable. This was almost certainly the impact of the drogue chute against the cable.

He immediately ordered the crew to bale out to which the navigator replied ’going’ and saw the air bomber attach his parachute and bale out. He observed two other crew members adjusting their parachutes and rushing aft to bale out. It was at this point that the aircraft hit another ballon cable (the second) and the aircraft became uncontrollable. P/O Maura then proceeded to bale out himself and noted the altitude as 700 feet. He landed safely and reported to the local police. The time was noted as 0136.

Birmingham ballon barrage records record two impacts at 0136 and 0140 hours, the latter entry being from the site closest to the crash. It appears the aircraft came down alongside the canal in the Kingsbury Road area. Certainly within a couple of miles of the airfield and factory at Castle Bromwich.

Plt Off Percy Leslie Moxey, Sgt Norman Geoffrey Crabtree and LAC Ronald Leonard Smith were killed in the crash. P/O Maura survived both the crash and the war, retiring from the RAF in 1946 with the substantive rank of Flight Lieutenant. There is some conjecture that he may have flown day fighters later in the war. Sgts Saddler and Russell both survived the incident but nothing is known of them subsequently.

Source:
http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/arc....php?t-66.html
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_...sualty=2421586

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Michael,

Actually he was tasked to escort this group of Il-2s. Arriving in the appointment area, Gomolko, as leader of escort group, tried to warn Il-2s formation leader that escort is on the way. His La-5s was misidentified as attacking Fw-190 and he was killed in burning plane.
Crash site is s-e of Priznannoje.

Brian,

Please note the signifficant thing regarding FF accidents on the Eastern front. Starting from the battle Kuban (april-may 1943), when 4 Yak-1s of 291 IAP landed by mistake in Taganrog, instead of Rostov, lots of Soviet combat reports are full with Soviet planes mentioned as used by Germans. Results of critical research for this cases say that the majority of them can be regarded as FF. But split them from the real cases of German flying the captured planes, are very difficult.

And two more fresh cases of FF, recently extracted from documents:

1. 29.01.1944, 12.35-13.35, area of Cap Tarkhan, Yak-1 of 42 GIAP was shot down by rapid attack of Aircobra. Mladshiy Leitenant Flerov was killed. On the other side Mladshiy Leitenant Andrijevskiy, 66 IAP, flying Aircobra, was credited with one Me-109 at the same area and time as Flerov was killed.

2. 1.02.1944, 16.45, area of Kingisepp-Narva, group of P-40, 191 IAP, on the routine patrol was attacked by a pair of Yak-9s. As result one P-40 was shot down and his pilot Mladshiy Leitenant Shijanov bailed out. Further investigation did not reveal the identity and unit of attacking Yak-9s.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Nik

Thanks for the latest incidents and explanation.

Do please keep them coming whenever you find them!

Best
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

501 posts and no end in sight! What a thread!

Bruce

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks Bruce

But not quite so - Volume I should appear by the end of the year!

Having said that, I currently have three other books with different publishers awaiting their respective appearances! Apparently the resession is biting!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian - I have some friendly fire incident from 1 IX 1939 but this concerns Luftwaffe. Does it counts?!


Have a nice day!
Andrzej

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Andrzej

Yes, certainly. I do have a number of incidents from the Polish war but I may not those you have found. Please advise.

Many thanks
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Brian,

for September 1939 I have:
Hs.126 (P2+MK) from 2.(H)/21 downed on 1 IX 1939 by 2 Bf.110 from I./ZG 1 near Warszkowo. Crew (Olt. Rehdanz WIA and Lt. Schmidt) was taken POW by Polish ground units.

If anyone can trace down both German pilots whom downed Hs.126 it would be greatly appreciated!!


Andrzej

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Andrzej

Many thanks. I had details of the incident but not the names of the crew.
Excellent!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I'm researching the death of Sgt Pilot Wright, who died after being hit by anti aircraft fire near Winchester in October 1942. RAF Museum very helpful, but does anyone have other information?

Mike

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Mike

All that I have noted so far is:

Beaufighter V8229 of 29 Squadron shot down at 1510 on 21 October by AA fire, the very day that an officer from AA Command came to lecture 29 Squadron on co-operation with the guns. Hit just 35 minutes into the flight, caught fire and crashed one mile west of Winchelsea, with the loss of Sgt Harold Wright and his navigator Sgt Alfred Akester. An investigation into the accident put the loss down to an “unfortunate error in recognition by the AA gunners. Fresh attention drawn to pilots and crews where rules for opening fire are unrestricted.”

Hope this helps. Are you able to add to this?
Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

I have two involving Norwegian pilots, apologies if these are already written here. 40 plus pages is a lot!

During the Dieppe-raid, 332 sqd mistook a RAF Hawker Typhoon squadron for Focke Wulf 190's. One of the Norwegian pilots opene fire and the squadron leader was shot down. Totally sorry for not remembering the squadron involved. The squadron leader was killed in this incident. The incident is described in several books, Svein Heglunds "Høk over Høk", my own book "Gladiator" and Cato Guhnfeldts "Spitfire Saga".

A few days after the D-Day landings, 331 sqd leader Leif Lundsten was shot down by friendly Naval fire just outside the beaches of Normandie. His last doings in this world was to give the others the correct course home before he said goodbye and told them to give his regards to the people "at home" in Norway when the war was over. He crashed into the sea.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Thanks North Weald (I was there a few weeks ago!)

Yes, I do have those recorded but thanks all the same.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

From Vitaliy Gorbach's book Над Огненной Дугой.
03Aug43
"Unpleasant incident occurred involving the 202 BAD. According to operations of the 235 IAD, at 18:25 a Pe-2 bomber, which went under escort of two Yak-1, has dropped its bombs on the Krasnyy airfield, where is based the 181 IAP. Fortunately the bombs did not cause any harm to the fighters, after falling nevertheless only within 20 meters of the flight line."

The ground crews must not have felt like there wasn't any harm.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many thanks once again, Nokose.

Very much appreciated.

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Don't know it is too late, but I found a friendly fire event in Libya on 1 December 1941.

An Italian artillery unit equiped with captured British trucks was bombed by German Stuka while attacking British poistions at Bir Berraneb (west of Bir el Gobi) and lost half of his guns, an armoured vehicle and 40 dead, including eight officers, one of them Lt-Col Dissegna, its commander.

Source: http://www.afrikakorps.org/batterievolanti.htm (in French)

40 dead is high for a "tactical" friendly fire bombing (not counting the carpet bombing used by the Allied, that were sometimes more bloody, especially in Normandy).

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Many thanks Laurent

Excellent, a new one! Plenty of time - Middle Wast and Far East 'friendly-fires' will appear in Volume III or IV!

Cheers
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Another one, probably you know about it.

http://www.station131.co.uk/55th/Pil...20F%20Capt.htm

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Laurent

That's another 'new' one for me!! Excellent.

Many thanks
Brian

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian,

A couple months ago I was surprised to find a used copy of BRITISH VESSELS LOST AT SEA 1939-45, 2nd Edition. A reprint of the 1947 two-volume official publication covering warships and merchant vessels and I was previously unaware of its existence.

The cause of loss descriptions are sometimes cryptic, but this is a handy little reference guide of tabular data and might be of some use to you.

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Brian, I suppose you know about this well known accident but as I am not visiting this thread so ofthen I have no idea if you know it or not:
On 28 June 1940, while landing on the Italian airfield of Tobruk a few minutes after a British air attack, Balbo was shot down by Italian gunners and killed. The cruiser San Giorgio started firing on his Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 airplane (bearing the civil registration "I-MANU" in honor of his wife, Donna Manu),[12] followed by the airport's anti-air guns. It is still not clear which of them shot him down.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italo_Balbo

Pavel

Re: Friendly fire WWII
 

Hi Pavel

Yes, I do have this but thanks for thinking of me!

Cheers
Brian