Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

Blenheim Mk. IV L9177 :
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Bomber-...MAAOSwyABcfOgx

Probably one from 6 Blenheims destroyed 11.5.1940 on zhe ground

http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/sho...1940&styleid=3

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Faenor,

Thank you for posting the photo of Blenheim L9177. This is an excellent find, I think it is the first photo of this Blenheim to surface. It confirms what I have long believed, that it was one of the 'missing' serials for Blenheims destroyed at Conde-Vraux on 11 May 1940 or abandoned there soon afterwards due to damage.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi,

check photo from post 470 - probably same plane (group photo with german) or plane from same unit on same place.

There is link on all photos :
http://www.modelari.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2426

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

Miles Master N7545 and Hurricane - probably from 1. or 73. SQ. (based on missing SQ codes and large tricolor)
I have same photo from more sellers, so nothing new - but I have a question about place - I´m not sure, which airfield is it and I have probably photo from same hanger, where is another Hurricane (coded ?LoL - probably LKoL from 87. SQ) and Faire Battle.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-2-erbeu...EAAOSwmjhcigcY

Thanks

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Faenor
N7545 was last heard of when it turned up-side-down landing at Merville, France 7.5.1940 and abandoned at that airfield. Last details was that it was handed over to 4 R&SU (Repair & Salvage Unit) in France 10.5.1940.
Unfortunately I don't know where this unit was formed (somewhere in France in April 1940), so maybe, just maybe Merville is the place.

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

The aircraft are in a hangar at Mourmelon le Grand.

Dave

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

And the evidence is??

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Stig,

Faenor and Dave are correct. I have a number of saved EBay photos showing up to 4 aircraft wrecks in this hangar. At least one photo is captioned 'Mourmelon' in a photo album.

No. 2 Salvage & Repair Section was formed at Mourmelon-le-Grand during October 1939 and remained there until at least 11 May 1940. This unit was renamed No. 4 Repair & Salvage Unit on 22 April 1940.
It sent a salvage party to recover Master N7545 and Hurricane P2540 LK-L early on May 8th, they returned late on May 9th to Mourmelon. (From their ORB in AIR 29/802 at Kew).
The photo Faenor has posted shows the Master and another Hurricane ('W', probably from 1 or 73 Squadron). Other photos show Hurricane LK-L just to the right and out of shot in this photo. Yet another photo shows a Fairey Battle dismantled near the hangar entrance, this last aircraft almost certainly from 88 Squadron which was also based at Mourmelon.

Master N7545 did not have its accident at Merville (Nord), but at Villefranche airfield (Meuse) some 45 miles north-east of Mourmelon. It and Hurricane LK-L were flying from Lille-Seclin to Senon when bad weather and fuel shortage forced their pilots to land at Villefranche.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Martin

Very nice to get a thorough answer with good details! Thanks for taking the time to go through your records!

This change/add a lot of details to two Air Britain books.
I am particularly interested in your mentioning of No 2 Salvage & Repair Section. None of these units are mentioned in the Air Britain book about Support Units.
In the book we have six Repair & salvage Units formed 25.4.1940 (more or less out of the blue with no original location...)
Did all these No 1 to No 6 R&SU have a Salvage & Repair Section origin?

The crash location of N7545 was taken from the Miles book by Peter Amos.
Don't know from where he got Merville (aircraft's record card perhaps?)
Since both the Master and Hurricane belonged to No 87Sq, I take it you quote from their ORB with regard to the landing incident?

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi,

The two incidents occured at 11h50 on the A/F of the Forces Aériennes du 18ème Corps d'Armées. Their posting were the airfield of Stenay-Wiseppe.

The French archives told that the three injured men were sent to hospital of Stenay.

Bertrand

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Stig,

Regarding the crashes on May 7th the 87 Squadron Operational Record Book is basically useless. The April and May 1940 sections were lost in France. A narrative report for May 1940 was written up sometime after the unit returned to England. It has many errors and omissions.

For Master N7545 my sources were the AIR 81/2068 casualty file and the French Mission to the AASF report mentioned by Bertrand above and courtesy of him. There is no Form 1180 accident report card for this incident.
For Hurricane P2540 I used the AIR 81/2067 casualty file, the Form 1180 aircraft accident report, the same French report as above and the AIR 35/138 'Flying Accidents and Forced Landings in France 1939-1940' file at Kew in London.
Also the 4 R&SU ORB (AIR 29/802) for both.

Nos. 1-3 Salvage and Repair Section units are not recorded in the Air-Britain book you refer to (2nd edition), though Nos. 4-6 Repair and Salvage Units are. However no mention is made of the fact that all three resulted from the renaming of established units already in France. These three R&SUs (4-6) were all dedicated to the AASF.
No records appear to have survived for Nos. 1-3 R&SUs or their predecessor units if any. These served the Air Component but I cannot tell you much beyond that.

Regards,

Martin.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

2 Stig J., Martin G. and Bertrand H. - thanks for additional info, which is now in my archive by these photos.

Have a nice day

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks again Martin

Much appreciated details!!
Must say I wonder why such a random name change took place?

But if I understand you correctly
No 1 S&RS became either No 5 or 6 R&SU
No 2 S&RS became No 4 R&SU
No 3 S&RS became either No 5 or 6 R&SU

I will send Peter Amos an e-mail correcting his Master mistake. I now know from where he got that details. He copied what Jim Halley wrote in the L and N files.

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Stig,

Yes, No.1 S&RS became No.6 R&SU while No.3 S&RS became No.5 R&SU.

Regards,

Martin.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Excellent details Martin (or should I say Mr Goldmine!!:) )

Thank you very much indeed!

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

crash of plane - squadron code looks like XYoQ - so maybe Stirling Mk III
EF254 XYoQ from 90. SQ - lost on night 9-10.5.1944:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-x-FOTO-FLU...sAAOSwiLlcriV5

More info:
http://francecrashes39-45.net/page_fiche_av.php?id=1247
http://www.harringtonmuseum.org.uk/w...Operations.pdf - page 220

again looing for more info and confirmation of my theory.

Thanks

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hello,

1944 - Not with that fuselage roundel!

One possibility is a very early Whitley loss:

15/16-10-1939
No.77 Sqn.
Whitley III K8947:KN-Q (not O, as in BCL1)
Op: Nickel.

Failed to return from Frankfurt. Reputedly shot down by A/A near Darmstadt, Germany.

F/L R WILLIAMS +
P/O J TISLEY - POW
Cpl A R GUNTON - POW
LAC R E FLETCHER - POW
Sgt J W LAMBERT - POW

See: BCL1 (rev.ed.)/83

See also: https://tailendcharlietedchurch.word...-personalities

Also take a look at page 4 of 583, of the above Harrington Museum site!

Could well be other "Q's", which took its place.

Col.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Good job Col. !

The back of these photos with "Photo-karber" sounded German rather French....

Bertrand

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Col Bruggy - thanks for info, as is visible, I´m "blind on the morning" and I didn´t checked the roundel type .

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

Spitfire P7787 LZoP from 66. SQ - lost 12.8.1941:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Wehrmac...oAAOSwtEBcsz9e

More info and some photos:
https://db.wingstovictory.nl/databas...php?wtv_id=129

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Under new management: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1559-Origin...4AAOSwVX1ctKAi

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...EAAOSwSjpctfc2
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Polen-g...UAAOSwrHBctij~

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Photo #1.

Flt Lt 'Bill' Palmer's Spitfire Vb, W3852, EB-W, 'Peggy', following his forced landing near St. Omer as a result of combat damage on 12 April 1942. (photo caption, p.625 - Source - Phil Listemann).

Wilfred 'Bill' PALMER, 968591/(110572) RAFVR, shot down by FW 190s of JG 26 during Circus 122 to Hazebrouck Marshalling Yards and captured at St. Omer, 12 April, 1942 (p.797-8)

See:
Blood, Sweat and Courage 41 Squadron RAF 1939-1942.
Brew,Steve.
N.P.: Fonthill Media,2014.
pp.625 & 797-8.

Col.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thank you Col.


Ed

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi
just curious

the photo shows a 'type C ' roundel which i thought didnt come into use until May 42

or did 41Sqn use it earlier in April ?

cheers
jerry

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi al,

on these links are probably photos on same plane:

http://www.aeroscale.co.uk/modules.p...=219081&page=2

https://forum.keypublishing.com/foru...n-RAF-history=

Some info from the 1st link about roundel types:
The small roundels are the type applied experimentally to night fighters and 'C' type roundels did not start to appear until the middle of April 1942, but generally from mid-May. So there is nothing odd about the 'A' type roundels under the wings. The most sensible explanation for the small roundels on the fuselage would be that it was transferred from a night fighter squadron

….but this plane was just with this squadron:
http://allspitfirepilots.org/aircraft/W3852

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Well Guys, which one is it?

W3852 (Col's details)
W3654 (Wojtek's thoughts)

As far as I can see there is nothing visible on the actual aircraft so how did for instance you Col come up with W3852? I don't have any of the sources you quote, but I suppose it came from a book by Phil Listemann?

Since Phil Listemann is using TOCH as well, perhaps he, in such a case, can give us some further details?

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hello,

ID? Simple, 41 Sqn coding ('EB'), and the name 'Peggy' under the windscreen. Confirmed by Andy Saunder's photo on p.626 of Stew Brew's Blood, Sweat and Courage.

Phill Listemann was the source for the photo of W3852 (p.625), in the aforementioned reference. No more, no less.

W3852: EB-W - Forced-landed near St.Omer 12.4.1942

W3654: EB- - P/O Albert van ROOD -Ejected from exploding aircraft, chute opened, landed safely, POW, 12.4.1942. Most likely a total wreck.

Steve Brew states unequivocally, that W3852: EB-W 'Peggy', was flown by F/L William 'Bill' Palmer on 12.4.1942.

Col.

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Thanks Col

Excellent explanation

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi
I see from the link it also has a 'c type ' fin flash

thanks for the link

cheers
jerry

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Rather a Bloch 175 of which a number are known to have been delivered to Luftwaffe ex factory.

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

type?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/FOTO-FLUGZEU...IAAOSwsAVctflS

looks like Antonov An-2 …….??? :-)

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

It is

I have pointed it out somewhere else on TOCH to Ed, possibly on the German Interest link.

Cheers
Stig

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi all,

I´m trying match these photos with correct plane:
https://www.ebay.de/itm/S171-Foto-We...gAAOSwTGZct3S9
https://www.ebay.de/itm/S172-Fotos-W...UAAOSwxvtct3Vy

The middle letter from codes looks like Y or X - if the date 10.5.1940 is correct then my tip is this Blenheim:
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=54116

I´m looking for more info and thanks for discussion.

Faenor

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Possibly YH-X ... Just a guess as a ghird letter is partly visible as a vertical line near the Y..... Goggle has info on loss regards

Re: eBay: Allied intrest
 

Hi Kaiyan, which one? I have no in my evidence shot downed Blenhem from 21.. Sq during 10/05/1940....

Thanks Faenor