Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thank you, David.




Ed

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Hi Ed,

I attach an expired eBay auction image that shows the machine's complete code from the left side. Another similar photo showing the right side and full v.-kenn. was posted on the LRG site.

Cheers,

David

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

1H+DF is Stab/V Gruppen (not IV)

I like codes list be like this:

A - Geschwader Stab. (Green)
B - Stab. I Gruppe (Green)
C - Stab. II Gruppe (Green)
D - Stab. III Gruppe (Green)
E - Stab. IV Gruppe (Green)
F - Stab. V Gruppe (Green)
G - Not known, some limited use (Green)

Staffel indentification letters:

Colour I Gr II Gr III Gr IV Gr V Gr
------------------------------------------------------
White 1 H 4 M 7 R 10 U 13 X
Red 2 K 5 N 8 S 11 V 14 Y
Yellow 3 L 6 P 9 T 12 W 15 Z

the other Ed (the Viking)

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Hi Ed,

Typing to fast at my end. Thanks for the correction.

David

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Hi, Ed
KG 26 did not have five grupes.
The fourth grupe sometimes use "F" and sometimes use "E".
The fifth grupe sometimes use "F" and sometimes "G"
This plane was He 111 H-6 (WNr 4217) from Gruppenstab IV./KG 26 like several others .
Eduardo

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

eduardo : Yes, Stab.V/KG 25 did exist, eventually (1944)!
I have seen that in records, and it had F (1945).

However there are two versions of code letters out, the other:

The New Luftwaffe Unit Codes

These appear first in March 1939 but were finalized in an order 04.07.1939. The new unit code system was simpler than the old (but had more letters than often reported). It was as follows: The first two letters denoted Geschwader, Gruppe, Staffel or independent unit, the third was individual machine letter (and regularily painted in Staffel or Stab. colour). The fourth denoted basically Stab. or Staffel. The six Stab. indentification letters were (basically):

A - Geschwader Stab. (Green)
B - Stab. I Gruppe (Green)
C - Stab. II Gruppe (Green)
D - Stab. III Gruppe (Green)
F - Stab. IV Gruppe (Green)
G - Stab. V Gruppe (Green)

Other sources state the letter “F” was for V Gruppen as Stabstaffel/KG 26 was known as V/KG 26 before!
Often the fourth letter was painted Black (1H+BF) where the individual letter (here B) was Bright-Green. Late in the war the fourth letter was often used as an special single-Staffeln designator. In this example the unit (KG 26) was apparently using an Stabstaffel of eight Ju 88 A-4 (Radar-equipped) ex-Bombers for Long-Range Reconnaissence or Long-Range Radio homing from October 1944 to May 1945. Others code letters (such as A3+AE) were used as Training codes for KG 200 (the Special Secret Unit) and use of “E” is also known in other instances.

Staffeln / Gruppe indentification letters:

Colour I Gr II Gr III Gr IV Gr V Gr
-------------------------------------------
White 1 H 4 M 7 R 10 U 13 X
Red 2 K 5 N 8 S 11 V 14 Y
Yellow 3 L 6 P 9 T 12 W 15 Z

( 16 Q, 17 J, 18 O, 19 E and 20 I )

If an fourth or fifth Staffeln was added to any Gruppe the colour was Blue and Black respectively. Known use of 16. and 17. Staffel was with KG 40 (Heinkel He 177) but there may have been others. In the early years of the war the Staffel letter U was used for the Training Staffel or Kette (four aircraft) and in some rare cases the fourth letter was omitted altogether.

- Open for debate... Ed

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Hi ,Ed
This plane was found by the British in 1943 in Tunis, Africa .Are you sure that by that time a fifth grupe exist then??
Eduardo.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

I am not saying that, just the system suggest that, but I am not expert on units He 111´s. However F is kind of strange, can this be 1H+BP (II Gruppen); also I do not find this aircraft in Tunis CEA lists. But thats no proof either.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Another planes belonging to StabIV/ KG 26
He 111 H-5 (WNr 4049) "1H+AF"
He 111 H-2 (WNr 2649) "1H+BF"
He 111 "1H+CF"
He 111 "1H+GF"
Acording to Alexander Steenbeck in his book.
Eduardo.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Hi David,


Wonderful. Thank you so much.




Best,
Ed

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Fw190D, Ju87G-1 ??+?K, Si204 ??+RJ Ju88 ??+GR (?) Fi103 V1 http://luckysorrentino.com/photography.html

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thanks for this excellent collection of photos, Michiel;

- The Fw 190 D seen on photo #117 is D-9 W.Nr. 631 444, found at Eschwege.
- The same applies for the Ju 87 G's depicted in photos #118 and #119; both landed in Eschwege early in the morning of 8 May 1945, flying in from Norway according to this account:
http://home.earthlink.net/~iversonom/veday1.html

- IMHO, photo 96 shows an Erla built Bf 109 G-14 wreck.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Slight correction on the Dora 9. The correct Werknummer is 601444.
Cheers. Jerry

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thanks Jerry for the correction ; much appreciated !

Cheers
Marc

FW190 Repro colour https://www.ebay.com/itm/Captured-FW...IAAOSw4nhZ~JPT

1. Ju87 https://www.ebay.de/itm/US-Foto-JU-8...YAAOSwyi9Z~ZUX
2. Fw190 RAF emblems https://www.ebay.de/itm/GB-Foto-Beut...cAAOSwEEBZ~Zh6
3. Bf109 desert gelbe 9 (i think repost) https://www.ebay.de/itm/US-Foto-Me-1...kAAOSwoVNZ~GCH
4. Ju88 3C+FR https://www.ebay.de/itm/3-US-Fotos-B...UAAOSwTO9Z~Z-R

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Album:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-Austral...19.m1438.l2649

https://dlggug.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

https://dlfqcw.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

https://dlg8ow.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

Regards,
Rudi.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Ju 88:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Photo-S...19.m1438.l2649
https://dlea6a.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

Ju 52:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Photo-G...19.m1438.l2649
https://dlg1xa.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

Bf 109:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Photo-G...19.m1438.l2649
https://dlhd6g.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Wo...19.m1438.l2649
https://sefqua.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

Regards,
Rudi

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thanks for those, Rudi.

The first Bf 109 picture is Bf 109 G-14 (?) W.Nr. 464 221 (?) "Schwarze 316", 2./JG 101, Bad Wörishofen , May 1945.

Source for the W.Nr: Crandall 2009 (Dora, volume 2, p. 39) states the W.Nr. as x54 221. The only known batch close to this number is the Erla built 464 xxx series… Hence my supposition.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Looking at the photo on a better computer, the W.Nr. could be ?64 221 but it is really hard to tell for sure.
Cheers, Jerry

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thanks for this precision, Jerry.

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

He 111 and Ju 88
https://www.flickr.com/photos/727459...7638559097086/

Fw 190 D-9 W.Nr. 500 467 "Braune 4", 7./JG 26, Hustedt.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/727459...7638559097086/

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

These are Ju 188 E or F (BMW 801 engines) lower, upper is He 111 H-5 or lower (VDM props). You need browse your bookshelf again M-A.H. :) !

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

What might the plane to the left of the Ju188 be? On first thought, I would say it is a Ju252/ Ju352. But then the undercarrige is wrong for a Ju252/352.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

A classic case of seeing and typing wrong...

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

An Italian SM 83 Marsupiale ?

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Ju 87 D-5, possibly NSGr. 1, May 1945.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/WWII-7-X-10...8AAOSwke9aAzPs

Mistel and He 162 W.Nr. 120 011, Magdeburg, May 1945.
www.oldhickory30th.com/531AA12.jpg

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Not likely to be NSGr. 1 with those Luftflotte 4 nose and rudder markings. NSGr. 10 is a possibility, though.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thanks for the suggestion, Nick; much appreciated.

Meanwhile some more captured planes:

Mistel, Fw 190 and Bf 110 G, Hildesheim, May 1945:
http://www.oldhickory30th.com/VH379.....com/VH383.jpg
www.oldhickory30th.com/VH380.jpg

Cheers
Marc

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

The Mistel is most likely in Bernburg instead of Magdeburg. The He162 could have been in Magdeburg, but that has so far not yet been confirmed.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Thank you, Marc. That is a very likely candidate.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

I also believe that the Mistel photo was taken in Bernburg (Ju 88 G-10s were, as far as I am aware, only found at Bernburg and Dessau).

By the way, there are two Fw 190 visible in the background (one barely behind the starboard landing gear of the Ju 88). I believe that the following photo shows that particular Fw 190:

http://www.ebay.at/itm/foto-luftwaff...4AAOSwdDBZh2Dh

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Concerning the He 162 in post #548:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/ph...-54868-12.html

To my eye the hangars behind the He 162 are the same as the hangars in the distance at the top left in this photo of Bernburg.

Jim

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Re. Ju 88 G-10s: Some were also flown to Polenzko / Zerbst Airfield in March 1945.
This was north of Dessau, but lots of G-1 Mistel conversions were found in Merseburg / Leipzig area, and place-names very often got mixed up, especially to US Army personnel that (fortunately) roamed this area southwest of Berlin. I do not know if any were found there, but most were found in Bernburg or Dessau (ref: my lists). I say fortunately as lots of images of their exploits have come to light.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Ju 88:

https://seealq.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RAF-WW2-FLY...19.m1438.l2649

Bf 110:

https://seg1oq.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

Bf 109 & Ju 52:

https://sefqfg.bn1302.livefilestore....&cropmode=none

https://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-RAF-gro...19.m1438.l2649

Regards,
Rudi.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Not seen that Ju 88 S/T lookalike before, suggest North Germany
RAF pilot, thus captured by Brit forces (?)

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes
 

Ed,

At first glance there are two names of German towns in the album: Vorst & Bückenburg.
- Vorst is probably Tönisvorst near the Dutch/German border, between Venlo & Krefeld.
- Bückenburg is located between Bielefeld and Hannover.
Both places are indeed in the north of Germany.

Regards,
Rudi.

Re: eBAy: Captured german planes