Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

On the move, folks!

I just started the massive task of grouping all the 3600+ pics by units. There will be thus three possible entires:

- by type and W.Nr.
- by location
- by unit

We'll miss of course the search engine function...beyond Flickr capacities...or beyond mines?

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

I think you need a website with database...
Is it possible to set keywords for the photos at Flickr? Then you can group with it... but you can't make a combination of the keywords...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

You know what David?

We should export all those pics in your excellent website: is that an idea?

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

How much/year?

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

We can talk about that via email...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Deal!

Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Ok Gang,

I've been through a first clean up of my account: basically, all identified - correctly or still in need of correction - pics are now subdivided in their unit set, including all JG's, NJG's, EJG's, NAGr's and foreign units...

This allow me to catch over 80 pics which had doubles and I suspect that a least another 80 is waiting to be caught...

Thanks for all your inputs so far, keep them coming in order to get the best possible database as is, before David and I talk in earnest :-))

Cheers
MArc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

And now a challenge regarding possible locations:

Thanks to Peter D. Evans, over on LEMB, here are two shots of destroyed Bf 109 G's and Fw 190's "somewhere in Germany".

Any hint regarding their location would be greatly appreciated.
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

#648

Hello Marc,

the first one is from Fürth-Atzenhofen. There is a color-film showing this Fw 190 "black 1" at Critical Past.

Carl

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Brilliant, Carl!

Many thanks!
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

...and the second one was sold together with shots from Würzburg some time ago :)

Cheers,
Christian

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Yihah!!! Jackpot!!

I owe both you and Carl a beer :-))

Many many thanks!
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi there Gang,

After the huge success of yesterday, here we go with another unknown location...

This Mtt-Regensburg Bf 109 G-6 "Schwarze 479" is from an unknown JG at an unknown location... Any ideas, you collective wizards?

Many thanks in advance
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello,

Not sure it helps, but 4/JG 104 had Bf109 G-6 with code in the range 4xx, and some were found in Fürth, with others from 3/JG 104 Coded 3xx.

Eric

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello,

Interesting Eric.
Do you mean that 1. Staffel had 1xx numbers? Then 2. 2xx, 3. 3xx and so on?
Can "we" prove it if enough documentation?

Then Fw. Bruno Stolzenburg Blaue 677 was from 6. Staffel? And, maybe, it wasn't blue at all but yellow?
I won't be surprised since it's difficult - except writen on a paper/report - to say if that code is blue or yellow.

But, still, interesting theory if not fact.

What about other JG 1xx units ?

Regards, Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

More,

There is a machine which code number is its last WNr. three digits ... Mere coincidence?

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Last,

Whatever, style, dimension and positioning altogether point for a JG 104 machine.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello Frank,
What I wrote about numbers is valuable only for JG 104 Bf 109, Ar 96 and a few others, and based mainly on Flugbücher Datas. It seems Bf 108 retained their Stkz. Some other types had 2 digits codes..All this with many exceptions...

Regards.

Eric

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks Eric,

I'm talking about one Bf 109 ... I'm always and only talking about Bf 109.
In that case, one Bf 109 G-14 we have seen recently in Marc's page.

But what about Staffel code number colours?..
It's a good trail to explore I think, however.

Thanks again, Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Great information and guesswork, Eric, mille mercis! Many thanks!

This first digit designing the Staffel of JG 104 is enlightening! So we do head for Fürth and thus unit... The surrounding seen in one of the two pics of "Schwarze 473" does fit quite well. A sandy soil, a small elevation in which those blast pens were dug out...all this fits well with the topography seen in the well known color shot of the Fürth dump, Summer 1945.

Franck, thanks for your confirming..and expert advice! And now, which G-14 you mean on my Flickr pages ?

Very very interesting... Thanks again to both!
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Sorry, but going through your JG104 set the theory about staffel numerals doesn't seem to hold at all unless I have misunderstood something? There's black numbers beginning with 1, yellow beginning with 2 and so on.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

The real question, Anders is too verify that all labelled JG 104 pics are really from JG 104. The famous in-flight sequences with "Gelbe 279" and "Gelbe 280" for example are variously identified as JG 102 at Zerbst and JG 104 at Wiesbaden-Erbenheim.

Maybe we should tackle this issue? Who knows more about JG 104? I'm pretty basic...

Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi Marc,

Not a JG 104 machine but a JG 102 one!!!

"Rote 863" WNr.464863
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

In that case, note that code number is smaller than for JG 104 machine and beneath the canopy.

...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

@Anders,

This is what I'm asking for ...

The only machine with white number I know from JG 104 is libelled I./JG 104, displays two digit number but we can suppose it's cut and it is certainly ... but the code starts with a "2".

All the rest, when visible are Black numbers ... Except that Blue 677 (if it's really blue) .. but without Staffel neither group indication.

@Marc,
exactly ... 1/ Are we sure? (Yes when indicated on photo backside)
2/ not enough to be sure but note that Eric is talking about Flight Books ; with an "s"! Maybe in a next future publication...

Cheers, Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Just to double the questions:

I have another "Schwarze 473" at hand in Fürth:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/6211479750
Bf 109 G-14/AS W.Nr. unknown "Schwarze 473", Fürth, Summer 1945. Noro 2009, picture 149, p. 112.

Wow, no easy matter...
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

And :)
Blaue 677
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
or
http://www.me109.info/display.php?a=e&fid=742

Comments in David site are interesting. Note that we have a 1./JG 104 machine with a II. Gruppe bar marking!!!!!
Should be an exception!

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

4./JG 104 so why Black number? ...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Without talking about this one

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Code number style AND dimension is closer to blue 677, and with a 2nd Gruppe bar ..
In fact I tend to think that Blaue 677 is not from JG 104, since long.
But we are not going to resolve that right now, are we??
...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

That's the whole issue... black tactical numbers most of the time, and 4xx indicates 4./JG 104, 5xx gives away 5./JG 104, etc...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

No, let's ponder over it for a while...

Read you soon :-))
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello Franck and all,

In post 668, concerning this link :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream
Bf 109 G-6 (?) W.Nr. 41x xxx "Blaue 384", 8./JG 104 (?), Regensburg, May 1945. Source: gallagher.com

I seems to me a "884", not a "384", which should be correct for 8/JG 104 ?

Regards.
Eric

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Correct, Eric!

Could we have black numbers for I. Gruppe and Blue numbers for II. Gruppe ?
"Blaue 677" speaks towards this direction.

I reloaded this pic from David's site, it is much clearer; Danke David!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/12211985833/

Just a wild shot further...
Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

And just to another contender...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625539907434
Bf 109 G-14 W.Nr. 51. ... "Schwarze 275", 2./JG 10x, Germany, Summer 1944. Source: Ebay auction via TOCH Forum.

Could it be a 2./JG 104 plane?
Cheers
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

In "Die Flugzeugführer-Ausbildung der Deutschen Luftwaffe" Band II page 108, you will find another photo of this "275", given as a Bf 109 G-6 from 2/JG 104 in 07/44 in Fürth.
Unfortunately, no colors indicated in the flight books I have, but in the same book, on the following page, you will find an Ar 96 (I know ...it is not a Bf 109...) coded "346", possibly yellow, certainly not black.

Regards.

Eric

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hello Eric,

for 384/884 I'll not fight since I was and still am not sure .. not a problem and this is not the main point.
275? matches with JG 104 for what I think and since it's already published ... Bingo I adopt it.

For code number colours ... could be a beginning of an answer, I follow this trail since long whatever.

The only thing I'm sure -without the book - another one to buy GRRRRR... - does concern those Black numbers, outlined in white, with "that" style in "that position"...; Schwarze 275 for example.
When we find something out of this schema I must admit I'm a little bit lost.

I'm just disapointed with last CJE article concerning these Units. There is much more things available to Crunch than generality.

Regards, Franck.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Folks,


I have an issue with this machine.... Labelled unit unknown, shot down in the vicinity of Colmar, November 1944... Obviously a 10. Staffel machine, but from which JG? Obviously a Mtt built G-6 or G-14... But where precisely, when precisely, and what unit?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/7238692992
http://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/12295662274

thanks for your help!
Marc

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

In Alsace in November 1944, III./JG 53 is a strong candidate.

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Thanks Nick!

Any possible CEAR giving an exact date and location? I checked Prien's JG 53 Vol. 3, but no clear contender for this particular plane, alas...

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Can anyone confirm that this aircraft is a Erla built Bf109G-10/Rüstatz 5? I see no curved panel below the cockpit, so not a G-14 and seems to have no chins on the lower cowl (110 type). The same type as the piled in one in the Prien book.

Andy

Re: Late war Bf 109 pictures source
 

Hi there Andy,

To the best of my knowledge, the plane which picture you attached is either a Bf 109 G-2/R6 or G-4/R6. It is certainly not a late war plane, as expressly shown by the old spoked main wheel hubs, tall antenna mast and old three pieces canopy.

Cheers
Marc