Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

hello,

LT Willy Elstermann,is'it the same pilot that the gruppenkom. of the II/JG 6 in 1944? and if yes what is carreer with zerstorer

thanks to all

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

You will read about that in detail in our book on JG 6, hopefully ready by 2009.

Cheers,

John manrho.

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

Good morning John,
Many thanks for the information on the aircraft flown by Elstermann, and locations of victories. This is most helpful. It would appear as others have already mentioned, that there is a glut of victories not yet documented, or possibly the records have become lost, since the end of the war!

Lets hope through sites like this, and renewed interest in this aspect of the 2nd w.war, much precious information can be found once again!

Best regs,
Steve.

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

Hi John,

thanks for claim`s details.:wave:

Regards

Robert

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

hello,

Larry,among pilots with vict.of I/ZG 52,have you Maj.Wilehlm Lessmann(seven vic.with zerstorer:two in 1939 with JGr.152 and five in 1940 with ZG 52) who relinquished command of I/ZG 52 to Maj.Harry Carl (26/06/40) and moving to stab/JG 52.

ATTENTION:not confuse with Haupt.Karl-Heinz Lessmann of I/JG 52(like for exampl.the book of john vasco)

sorry I have'not informations of dates,locations.... of vict.but perhaps somebody on the net.

regards

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

John,

Your posting on Elstermann seems to indicate that these were his first three claims. Other sources show him claiming a Curtiss on 24.09.39 and possibly a Potez on 6.10.39 (Shores et al. "Fledgling Eagles"). These were made while the unit was equipped with the Bf 109D. Do you have any info from the log book on these claims, including tactical numbers on Elstermann's planes?

Thanks,

Tom

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

Tom

it's not the same Elstermann:his name is HORST ELSTERMANN for vict. in 1939(source:book of jochen prien)

focusfocus

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

Indeed, Prien list that guy as Lt. Horst Elstermann. In my opinion no relation to Lt. Willy Elstermann. These claims of 1939 are not mentioned in Willy Elsterman's logbook and he did also not fly on 6.10.1939.

regards,

John.

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

John & Focusfocus,

Thanks for your responses. There seems to be some confusion in both the Prien and Shores books between Horst and Willi. John, since you have Willi Elstermann's log book your comment seems rather definative. Can you tell me when Willi began flying with I./ZG 52?

Shores et al. in Fledgling Eagles refers to "Horst" in the text and index but "Willi" in the appendix. While Prien et al. in Die Jagdfliegerverbände ... refers to "Willi" in the Abschuß list and "Horst" in the loss list! Rather a coincidence having two Lt. Elstermann's in the same unit.

Tom

Re: Victory Lists for I./ZG52 during the French Campaign
 

Hello John,

Momentarilly very occupied with our recent born twins, regretfully I am not a frequent visitor of this forum anymore. But the name Elstermann catched my attention!

Could you please check whether Willy Elstermann was with the I.NJG 1 ? From the Dr.Siecke collection I have a picture of him (and 1-2 other guys) but I do have serious doubts, whether Elstermann had a brief career in the I.NJG 1: so far I haven't come across his name on Einsatzbefehle, Tagebücher, Weihnachtszeitungen of the I.NJG 1...

As always many thanks in advance! Marcel Hogenhuis / Venlo