Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

It's not the canopy dimensions that are an issue, it's the interior measurments.
Later model 109's went with the Revi 16B (which is nearly half the size of the C/12D) and mounted it on a bracket that could be swivelled out of the way for better vision and pilot safety concerns.
The only way to mount an EZ42 (quite large) would be by mounting it back closer to the pilots face. Just not a very practical set-up in 109's.

I have never seen a pic of an EZ42 in a 109 nor have I read or heard of any pilot stories that mention the EZ42 in 109's.
All the pilot's that talk of using EZ42's seem to be 190 or 262 pilots.

Revi C/12D
Lange 220mm
Breite 103mm
Hohe 170mm
Gewicht 1.4kg

Revi 16B
Lange 130mm
Breite 60mm
Hohe 126mm
Gewight 0.7kg

EZ42
Lange 268mm
Breite 114mm
Hohe 190mm
Gewicht 2.5kg

Regards,
Mike

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

Mike,

Please don't forget that while the Revi 16B and C12/D was shorter in length they were not directly attached to the panel but had a flange or tube on which they were mounted. The EZ42 could be attached directly to the panel and would not have been closer to the pilot's face than a 16B. The same thing was done in the Me 262 were the tube on which the Revi 16B could be swivelled out of the way was cut at the horizontal tubular frame and the mounting plate of the EZ42 was directly attached to the horizontal tubular frame (w/o the possiblity to swivel the sight).

I think I have seen at least photos of a EZ40 (not the later EZ42) in a Me 109 (I have to search my documents, but I found the photo at the NASM archives some years ago).

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

The C/12D uses a mount bracket approx. 7mm thick.

Don't see the EZ42 attaching directly to the instrument panel. No attach points for something that weighs 2.5kg. Even with the front of the EZ42 up against the instrument panel you would still be about 4cm closer to pilot.

There is also a difference in distance from pilot to instrument panel between the 109, 190 and 262. As an extreme example look at the Hs-129, had to mount C/12D outside, forward of the windscreen.

I'm still stcking with it just wasn't a practical set-up in 109's. I just haven't seen any evidence that they were used in 109's. I'm sure at some point alot of different sights were installed at an experimental trail and fit level.

I'm open to learn more. Please show me a pic, pilot report or any documentation that EZ42's were used in 109's.

Regards,
Mike

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

Mike,

The Revi C/12D had a mounting frame of about 10cm length.

I have to go through my documents to find the photo of the Me 109 panel with EZ40 (if I remembered correctly), but as a "quick proof" I attach two photos of the adjustment switch box of the EZ42 which had specific adjustments for the Fw 190 and Bf 109.

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

Mike,

I think because most cockpit photos show the C/12D only from the pilot's view you have not noticed the rectangular frame inbetween the panel and the Revi or Revi mounting plate (which you have shown in your photo). I have attached a photo where you can see the mounting frame. The C/12D was not directly attached to the panel.

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

Thanks for the pics. I guess I misunderstood what you were referring to. It use to be a lot closer in the early 109's, Pic 33 & 38.

http://www.moskittech.ru/eng/myze/Bf.../Bf-109B-1.htm


Still would like to see some 109/EZ pics.

Regards,
Mike

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

To accommodate the Revi C12B in the 109B, they needed to mold a wedge into the windshield to stop the gunsight from rattling against the windshield (From the 109B weapons manual, L.Dv. 228/1 (1937), page 29). On most 109A/Bs, they cut out part of the panel and glued on an outer panel. See: http://www.moskittech.ru/eng/myze/Bf.../Bf-109B-1.htm photo #33. Later they simply changed the slope of the windshield from 45 degrees to 35 degrees.

So, there was very little spare room in that aircraft, and I side with those who have doubts about a gyro gunsight fitting into the cockpit. But, the Germans could do amazing things when they needed to, so nothing would surprise me.

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

I couldn't find the photo of the Me 109 G cockpit with the EZ42 anymore, but I remember it very well. It might be that I haven't copied it as I was focused on the Me 262.

So, while I don't have a photographic proof for the use of the EZ42 in the Me 109 right now, I have at least a proof that it was intended to be used in the Bf 109 K-4 (see attachement: report about a visit of Messerschmitt personnel of the Askania company regarding the EZ42). I am sure that the people at the E-Stelle Rechlin and Askania had checked the dimensions in a Me 109 first before they made this decision and even started to print Bf 109 specific data sheets for the EZ42 adjustment switch box. By the way, the Bf 109 is also mentioned in the manual of the EZ42.

To summarize: There is no doubt that the EZ42 could have been installed in a Me 109. To prove that it actually was needs photographic evidence (which I have seen but unfortunately cannot present to you as I haven't copied it).

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

Hello,

After going through my documents, I have found evidence that it really was installed in a Me 109!

A "Besprechungsniederschrift: EZ42 in 8-262 und 8-109" of Messerschmitt AG dated 24 Nov 1944 mentions:

"I) Einbau EZ42 in 8-109: E-Stelle Tarnewitz has the task to install the EZ42 in 8-109-aircraft of JG300 for testing. The installation has to be done in a way that corresponds to the later serial production installation.
(...) Fa. Obb.Forschungsanstallt has assessed the installation of the EZ42. (...) As explained on the drawing the line of sight cannot be kept the same as for the Revi 16B. The line of sight of the EZ42 will be 12mm higher and 20mm to the right of the fuselage center line. The EZ42 will be installed on a swiveilling mount similar as for the 16B in order to avoid obstruction during entering and exiting of the aircraft as well as to avoid injuries of the pilot during emergency landings."

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EZ 42 in FW 190
 

For what it may be worth, here's a EZ 42-report taken from a "Schwerpunkterprobungsbericht Nr.50/44 der Erprobungsstelle Tarnewitz für die Zeit vom 10.-16.12.44.":
Cheers
Hans