Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

Absolutely! That's my site (http://brew.clients.ch/RAF41Sqdn.htm). I saw this post at work at lunch time today, but waited till I got home to respond, but Chris beat me to it!

You may be interested to know that Terry Webster's family have, with some assistance, undertaken quite a bit of research and are of the opinion today that Hood and Webster did not collide, rather that Hood was shot down, baled out but was rendered unidentifiable by his injuries. He has not been found but a German pilot was buried on the same day by the name of 'W. Heatz' who has also not been identified (i.e. he did not exist) so there is a feeling it may actually be Hood.

As for Terry Webster, his family believes he collided with Flt. Lt. Reginald E. Lovett, DFC, a Flight Commander with 73 Squadron, who was nicknamed ‘Unlucky Lovett’ by his unit as a result of a series of mishaps. After his mid-air collision with Webster, he baled out of his aircraft, Hurricane I, P3204, H, unhurt but, only two days later, was shot down and killed in Hurricane I, P3234.

Lovett was attacking Ju88s when he was hit in the leading edge of his starboard wing by return cannon fire at a range of 300 yards. When he peeled off and away from the enemy aircraft, he collided with Webster’s Spitfire, R6635, EB-M, whilst the latter was climbing to make an attack on the enemy formation. Uninjured, Lovett baled out and parachuted to safety at Rawreth, Essex, and it is believed his aircraft crashed, minus one wing, in farmland at Nevendon Hall, in what is today Nevendon Road Sewerage Works.

Webster’s Spitfire disintegrated and pieces fell over a large area, from Bonvilles Farm on the A127 Southend Arterial Road, across fields, and in Nevendon, which is where the main portion of the fuselage was found. Webster’s body was found by the A127.

A 73 Squadron Intelligence Report for 5 September 1940 explains Lovett’s actions during the early afternoon’s attack on the Thames Estuary by large formations of He111’s and Ju88’s, with their Me109 cover:

At 1510 approx. enemy formation sighted about 1 mile to south being engaged by A/A at 19,000 ft. E/A flying westwards in 3 vics, in line astern. A Flight led by Red 1 F/Lt. Lovett D.F.C. attacked the rearmost formation. Leader commenced quarter attack, bu as E/A travelling very fast it developed into astern attack at 350 yds. Leader experienced considerable cross fire and was hit by M.G. fire on the port side. Closed to 300 yds., but hit on starboard leading edge by cannon shell, and in breaking away a Spitfire came upwards almost vertical and they collided. Leader baled out and landed near Rochford, uninjured after delayed drop.

As the areas that Lovett and Webster's Spitfires came down are very close to each other (there is also further evidence), it appears most likely that it was indeed Lovett and not Hood that collided with Webster.

As for Ryder's claim, I would suggest that the Luftwaffe pilot you mention above [Uffz Günter BEHSE of 5./JG54 went missing in Messerschmitt Bf109E-4 (5353) after combat with RAF fighters south-west of Southend at 14.45 hours (BST)] probably did not fall to Ryder for the simple reason that 41 Squadron were up twice that day, the first time between 09:15 and 11:00, and the second time between 14:59 and 15:45, which means they did not take off until after Behse was shot down.

Hans, I have Intelligence Reports for both ops., if you'd like to contact me off board. I also have his Combat Report for the afternoon op., which shows his vic. is recorded at 15:00 at 15,000-8,000 feet over Sheppey. Again, let me know if you'd like a copy.

Hope this is a help
Steve

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

Thanks a lot Chris and especially Steve!!!
The links were very interesting, especially the latter, real gem! I found it absolutely fabulous. I read it and looked the locations from to my oldish AA Maxi Scale Atlas Britain.
And Steve, thanks alot also for Your very thorough answer, very enlightening!

Thankfully
Juha

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

Steve,

Congratulations on an attractive & informative site. I wish that there were others of a similar quality. I gladly accept that the collision over Nevendon on the afternoon of 5 September 1940 involved WEBSTER & LOVETT and not HOOD as proposed in BoBT&N (1980). However, I have to refute the somewhat fanciful suggestion that S/L HOOD was mistakenly buried as an unidentified German airman.

Despite, the obvious confusion in the Becontree Cemetery Register (it was a busy time for them) it is clear that the 'Walter HEATZ' buried in Grave No. 684, Square B1, on 11 September was in fact Walter KLOTZ, observer from an Heinkel He111 of 6./KG4 lost off the Isle of Grain on 7 September 1940. The name 'HEATZ' was probably misinterpreted from some hand-written document (Ausweis ?) found on the body. The fact that the Register has subsequently been amended to read 'KLOTZ' suggests that the authorities were satisfied as to the fact, such amendments not being done casually. Incidentally, the body of the wireless operator from this aircraft, Uffz Wilhelm WOLF, was found on Crayford Marshes on the morning of 8 September 1940 and buried at Crayford Churchyard next day.

Unfortunately, the Becontree Burial Register further confuses the issue with entry 5206, an 'Unidentified German Airman' buried along with Fw Otto WAHL, Gefr Paul LESKER, and Gefr Heinz BUSCHBECK of 9./KG77 whose Junkers Ju88 crashed at Gifford Marshes on 18 September 1940. Their wireless operator, Fw Otto GRAF, baled out and was captured. This entry was later amended to read '65109/11 W. HEATZ'. But as this ID number was that of Otto WAHL, and whatever was buried on that occasion obviously originated from the Ju88 downed at Gifford Marshes, it seems that (a) the authorities simply got the head-count wrong and (b) a transcription error was also made in the Burial Register in relation to the fictional 'W. HEATZ'.

Regretably, the body of S/L HOOD was never reported found and he remains 'missing'. Hope this helps to make better sense of things.

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

Hi Peter

Thank you for your compliment on my site. It is a 'cover' for a history of the Squadron that I am currently writing. The short pilot biographies on the website are now 150 pages long in the manuscript!

Thanks also for the excellent intelligence on the likely misinterpretation of KLOTZ's name from his Ausweis. Not a surprise if he was in the water for some time, as this would have led to some deterioration of the document. I would like to add this information to what I already have, with your permission, please?

Thanks
Steve

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

Steve,

Feel free, and good luck with the manuscript.

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

Dear Peter

Firstly, I would like to thank you for being my original inspiration to carry out this research work relating to SL Hood; The BofBT&N showing me that tangible relics, eye-witnesses and archive documents still existed related to the Battle of Britain. Even more so that it happened in the area that I was then living.

Many thanks for the further information regarding Walter Heatz. The confusion and alterations in the register, together with the fictitious German name, suggested certain possibilities, one of which could have been mistaken burial.

Unfortunately, since I completed the article on Steve's web-site (also published in Dilip Sarkars book) I have got no further forward with my research, apart from being contacted by further eye-witnesses and members of families of the pilots involved. The eye-witnesses and archive documents all point to an unidentified body being discovered on the A127 with an unopened parachute (Some correspondents suggesting that the body was decapitated/some Polish). As Websters parachute was found in a field some distance from the A127 many days later, this would suggest that the body can only be that of SL Hood. In addition, the body was fairly close to the site of the Spitfire discovered by Sam Armitage.

If you were able to suggest any further areas of research that I could examine, I would be most grateful. Unfortunately, the most helpful records, such as the Nevendon Police Station log book or the undertakers records for the area are not available. Sam Armitage did tell me that he sold the machine gun feed chute that his sister had retrieved to someone called Dick Walker (?) so if the aircraft serial was on the feed chute that would have confirmed whether the aircraft was P9428.

regards

Philip Harvey

Steve - good luck with the book!

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

[quote=Peter Cornwell;57409]Steve,

Despite, the obvious confusion in the Becontree Cemetery Register (it was a busy time for them) it is clear that the 'Walter HEATZ' buried in Grave No. 684, Square B1, on 11 September was in fact Walter KLOTZ, observer from an Heinkel He111 of 6./KG4 lost off the Isle of Grain on 7 September 1940. The name 'HEATZ' was probably misinterpreted from some hand-written document (Ausweis ?) found on the body. The fact that the Register has subsequently been amended to read 'KLOTZ' suggests that the authorities were satisfied as to the fact, such amendments not being done casually.

Unfortunately, the Becontree Burial Register further confuses the issue with entry 5206, an 'Unidentified German Airman' buried along with Fw Otto WAHL, Gefr Paul LESKER, and Gefr Heinz BUSCHBECK of 9./KG77 whose Junkers Ju88 crashed at Gifford Marshes on 18 September 1940. Their wireless operator, Fw Otto GRAF, baled out and was captured. This entry was later amended to read '65109/11 W. HEATZ'. But as this ID number was that of Otto WAHL, and whatever was buried on that occasion obviously originated from the Ju88 downed at Gifford Marshes, it seems that (a) the authorities simply got the head-count wrong and (b) a transcription error was also made in the Burial Register in relation to the fictional 'W. HEATZ'.


Peter, Could the 'Unidentified German Airmen' buried at Bacontree Cemetery be Uffz. Andreas Knoll, EM: 55537/25, (BM) on the same aircraft as Oblt. Klotz, and still listed as Missing?

Re: Claim on Bf.109 5th September 1940
 

The simplest explanation is that the authorities got the head count wrong when sifting the ghastly remains recovered from the Ju88 down at Gifford Marshes on 18 September 1940 and entry 5206 in the Becontree Register relates to further partial human remains of those identified under entries 5205, 5207, & 5208. As you say, the Disc Number 65109/11 associated with this entry was that of Otto WAHL lending weight to the conclusion that three bodies had become four. Certainly nothing evidential was found in the coffin on its exhumation on 12 December 1962 prior to removal to Cannock Chase.

Joe POTTER may well have something further to contribute to this thread ?

An interesting footnote to this incident was the subsequent arrest and conviction of Home Guard Thomas HARRIS who shot and killed two civilians when an ugly crowd collected at the crash site. He was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to twelve months imprisonment.