Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Hello,
I'm trying to find out some details about Blechschmidt's last aircraft. If it was equipped with any Rüstsätze? For example, in early 1943 several planes from ZG 1 was equipped with the Bordkanone BK 3.7. What about BF 110 G-2 ( code S9+BA ) ?

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Me 110 shoot down the 1"th July 1943 By the 1st VA :

1 for the 2nd IAK (Corps of fighters = 2 divisions = 7gv IAD (1st GV IAP : 27 Yak-7b, 89th GV IAP : 30 Yak-7b and 146 IAP : 32 Yak-7b) and 215 IAD (2nd Gv IAP, 263th and 522th IAP) )
1 for 224 ShaD (Sturmoviks division), one damaged for the 233 ShaD perhaps this of the 198 IAP ?????
1 for the 303 IAD (Figthers division = 18 Gv IAP, 20 IAP, 168th IAP and 523th IAP) this below report of the 18 GvIAP.
1 for 309 IAD. : (49th, 162th, 172th and 272th IAP)
3 for the french GC3 "Normandie"

14th soviet aviation regiment with 4 squadrons and two free french squadrons.

Location :

Ulianovo :

One shoot by Major Nikolaî Aleksevitch Biazovin dead 15th July 1943) of the 172 IAP (beetwen 14h49 and 15h57 near Ulianovo.

Архив: ЦАМО, Фонд: 20270, Опись: 1, Дело: 11, Лист начала документа в деле: 96.

Perhaps :

Bf 110 G-2 (6111) 2./Z.G. 1
Enemy fighters. Near Uljanowo 25% F


One other Me-110 claim in the " Raume von Uljanowo"

Repport of the 18th GvIAP for the 13th July 1943 : One shoot near Yagodnaia (Raume von Uljanowo) by the Captain Siberin of the 18 GvIAP (303 IAD) at 11.55 a;m.

ЦАМО, Фонд: 20265, Опись: 1, Дело: 18, Лист начала документа в деле: 137

"At 11.55 7 yak7 under the command of Captain Sibirin accompanied 6 IL-2 to the Yagodnaya district. When the target approached at a height of 300-600 meters, they met 6 Me-110, 4 fw-190, 2 Me-109, which they got out to attack the attack aircraft. Captain Sibirin, at an altitude of 300 meters, attacked from behind from a 1/4 angle from a distance of 70-50 meters, shot down 1 Me-110, which was crashed and burn 3 km south-east Yagodnaya."

3 km south-east of Yagodnaya it's near Gorodok.

Perhaps ;

Bf 110 G-2 (6292) 3./Z.G. 1
Technical failure. Sljanowo-Bolchoff 15% F

or

Bf 110 G-2 (6252) Pz.Jg.St. Z.G. 1
Mihatsch, Ltn. Werner FF
Weiß, Uffz. Harry BF
WIA due to Flak. Bf MIA.
West of Gorodok 100% F

I must have to read the report of the ground unity for DCA activity.

We have no proof of the destruction of an Me-110 by an aircraft of the 198th SHAP

5.30pm report from the 198th Shap. Архив: ЦАМО, Фонд: 22435, Опись: 0017416, Дело: 0001, Лист начала документа в деле: 275

Group of 4 IL-2 planes -
Leader captain MALINKIH - sub-lieutenant gunner Smirnov,
Deputy: Lieutenant EFIROV - machine gunner Dobrov,
Winger Sub-Lieutenant ZINOVSKII, machine gunner Redovubov,
Sub-Lieutenant HEMILYA - machine gunner Ivanov
at 3.20 p.m. from a height of 600 meters on a low-level flight approach attacked artillery positions on the southern outskirts of the village. Sorokino.
Leaving the attack, Captain Malinkin - machine gunner Smirnov in plane No. 77353,
Sub-Lieutenant Zinovskii, Redovubov machine gunner, in plane n ° 5667,
Second Lieutenant Nemilya - air. Ivanovna gunners plane number 1295
did not return from the combat mission.
The position and condition of the crews are unknown.
According to the group's deputy, Lieutenant EFIMOV -
Captain MALIKIN and ZINOVSKY were shot dead in the area of ​​Smetskie Vysilki - Nov ogryn. Ml. Lieutenant NEMILYA left the Sorokino area with a heading of 80 °.

It is only in the following report that we have some explanation. This shows that the pilots only have a partial view of the events.


Sorokino = 35 Ost 54421

Most likely because the pilots of 172 IAP give the region of Ylianovo as the sector of the attack.

13.07.43 Ofw. Rudolf Rademacher 1./JG 54 Il-2 £ 54,443: at 200 m. 14.14 Film C. 2032 / II Anerk: Nr. 617

07.13.43 Ltn. Günther Scheel 2./JG 54 Il-2 £ 54,442: at 600 m. 14.12 Film C. 2032 / II Anerk: Nr. 615

13.07.43 Ofw. Rudolf Rademacher 1./JG 54 Il-2 £ 54,442: at 200 m. 14.09 Film C. 2032 / II Anerk: Nr. 616

I continue, look for them in the archives

PS : Ktyn is a bridge on the Recceta river not on the Bytebet the flowing river of the "Raume von Ulianovo".

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Hy everyone,

After translation of the Soviet archives of the various units of the 1st Army for the realization of my "Atlas of Normandy-Niemen".

It appears that the Niemen did not attack the Ktsyn bridge, it is an error in locating, the French took the wrong bridge when writing their report.

The French did not attack this Recceta bridge but a bridge over the Vitebets river.

The Ktsyn bridge is attacked by the 996th ShAP under the protection of 7 Yak-7s of the 513rd IAP who claim 1 Me-110.

The problem with the Normandie-niemen is that everyone is working on second or third hand work and no one is working on the archives.

It is also necessary to cross the archives of the different units to unravel the errors which are not uncommon in the Normandy reports.

Best Regards

Laurent

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

This combat is in BCRS vol 5

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Some of my russian friends have found the wreck of the Bleschschmitt's Me 110.

According to witnesses to the discovery of the center section of this plane, there was no obvious damage.
What goes in the direction of the hypothesis of Evgeny Velichko, the plane would have been touched with an engine.

I will try to ask for another photo
https://trizna.ru/forum/uploads/mont...2e256e2c5e.jpghttps://trizna.ru/forum/uploads/mont...794f827430.jpg

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Which date are you talking about here? The 12th or the 13th?
Since the " is above the digit 2, the 12th is the obvious one, but since the topic concerns the 13th, I am simply curious....

Cheers
Stig

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Hello Stig "=3 , it's the same keybord

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

Thanks (not sure what keyboard you use, but it is not standard in Sweden :) )

Cheers
Stig

Re: "Normandie" claims over Bf110, 13 july 1943
 

To close on the fact that one of the pilots of the Normandie-Niemen allegedly shot down Joachim Blechschmidt between 7:22 p.m. and 8:20 p.m.
I give you the Diagram illustrating the report of the 996th ShAP of the 224th ShAD which attacked the bridge of Tsyn' between 7:40 p.m. and 8:20 p.m.
During this mission no Luftwaffe intervention was encountered above the target.
This confirms once again that the fighting occurred above the Dournevo bridge.
The French in writing their report were mistaken between the valley of the Resseta river and that of the Vytebets.
This can be explained by the fact that the French pilots have never flown in this sector since their arrival in Kozelsk on May 20. The very few pilots who have flown since that date only know the Duminitchi sector.

https://zupimages.net/up/23/28/48lv.jpghttps://zupimages.net/up/23/28/g8yt.jpg

Legend :---------------------- KTSYN'--------- CROSSING------------------------------------ DUDOROVSY