Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Yes, very good idea.

But look on photo - You can see holes by 0.303 bullets, 1 on the swastika, and several more on area under nearest soldier's hand.

Is it possible that aircraft was SHOT DOWN, not "collided"?

Harald Zimmermann seems to be very unknown person. According "Die Träger des Deutschen Kreuzes in Gold, Kriegsmarine, Lufwaffe, Waffen-SS, und des Deutschen Kreuzes in Silber, Heer, Kriegsmarine, Lufwaffe, Waffen-SS - Horst Scheibert", he has no DKiG (that is really strange, while he had at least 7 victories, and flew from BoB to december 1942). No DKiG, no RK...

Where he was in period after I./ZG 2 in late 1940 and before III./ZG 1 - early 1942? Any info aviable?
May be with ZG 26 on Osfront during 1941?

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Perhaps collided under "enemy fire".

Robert

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

About that 3M+HL.

AS Robert sayd, 2 Bf110 PROBABLY came under attack, 1 of them took hits and crashed into second.

Any RAF combat report of this unusual "dowble-claim"?

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Ofw. Kurt Müller participated in SCW, and got 3 victories:

Then, with 3./ZG 2, he got next 4 victories (but only 1st is known for me):

So, if he was a 3./ZG 2 pilot (NOT 2./ZG 2), so it fits with 3M+HL with 7 abschusse on fin :)

3 "Spanish" victory bars and 4 "WW II" victory bars are clearly visible.

There are doubts about his rank: Oblt. or Ofw. Both arementioned in both lists, but I think that it is the same pilot.

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Hi,

he was with the 2/ZG2 - victories on the 13.08 and 25.08 (1st and 2nd so this is probably another Kurt Mueller).

Robert

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

So Oblt. Müller and Ofw. Müller are different persons?

So, It was not mistake with ranks:

13.6.1938 Oblt. Kurt Müller 1.J/88 I-15 1 (unconfirmed) ?
15.7.1938 Oblt. Kurt Müller 1.J/88 I-15 2
23.8.1938 Oblt. Kurt Müller 1.J/88 I-16 3

17.1.1939 Ofw. ? Müller 3.J/88 I-16 1
21.1.1939 Ofw. ? Müller 3.J/88 I-15 2
15.9.1939 Ofw. Kurt Müller 3./ZG 2 Lublin XIII  W. Lemberg 07.15-09-45 Refer: Prien/Bock re. Perry

Ahhh.. I see now :(

2 Pilots with same first and last name in one Gruppe - wonderfull! And both had claims in Spain :)

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Evgeny,

I just sent you the info/photo again on this crash. Sorry, I didn't go to the current discussion, but was only responding to the end of Page 1. Anyway, I think that you have this same info again.

Regards,

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

From 'Zerstörer, the Messerschmitt 110 and its units in 1940' by Peter Cornwell & myself, regarding the Müller/Wagenbreth collision on 3rd September 1940: "...Two of their Bf 110s collided over Epping: Oberleutnant Kurt Müller, the Staffelführer of 2./ZG 2, and his Rottenflieger, Feldwebel Kurt Wagenbreth, whose starboard wingtip hit the wing and rudder of Müller's aircraft as they both took evasive action to avoid frenzied attacks by the Hurricanes of No. 310 (Czech) Squadron..." So it is extremely likely that the Bf 110s received hits as they sought to evade the Hurricanes' attack and as a result, collided.

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Thanks John!

That explaines holes of 0.303 bullet his in tail of 3M+HL.

Re: Zestörer "Aces" with I./ZG2 in 1940
 

Larry - any posibility to see ZG2 claim list?
Currently working over an article about one of 2./ZG2 pilots. Picture as whole as possible would be nice...