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Re: JG 2: FW 190 dogfight with P-47 on 10/21/1944
With your kind support I was able to collect more details and come to the following summary:
On 10/21/1944 36 P-47 of the 365th FG “Hell-Hawks” took off at Chievres at 14:29 for their 2nd mission of this day. The formation was led by Major John R. Murphy. They were at EUPEN around 15:00. As the group orbited three miles southeast of Bonn at 16:00, four planes left the formation. As the group orbited, Major Murphy got a vector from MARMITE towards “bogies” at 20,000 feet and at eleven o’ clock to the “Hell-Hawks” position near Hadamar. The “bogies” were soon identified as thirty FW-190s. A bit strange is, that acc. to the Americans another large group of 25-30 Fw 190s joined the battle. During a fierce dogfight in the area north of Monatbaur the Americans claimed 21 German aircraft (including 1 Me 109!?) destroyed, 1 Fw 190 probably destroyed and another 11 aircraft damaged. The Americans lost 1 P47, piloted by Lt. R. Hagan crash landing near Athus/Belgium. Lt. Longley’ s P-47 was damaged (he took a 20 mm shell in left wing), and he crash-landed his plane back at Chievres. However, acc. to German sources it was only 27 fighters of JG 2 “Richthofen” who took off from airfields in Hesse. It was a ferry-flight to the Ruhr-area and some pilots had not even completed their fighter-school. It seems that JG 2 “Richthofen” lost only 9 Fw 190A-8 this day. The Germans claimed five P-47 shot down. Questions: 1.) How comes that the Americans identified two large groups of FW 190? 1 x 30 Fw 190 1 x 25-30 Fw 190 It is rather unlikely that the Germans were able to get appr. 60 fighters (all Fw 190s) in the air at this stage of the war. 30 is already impressive but 60!???? 2.) Why is there no MACR for P-47 on 10/21/1945 with the exception of Lt Vernon Murphy (368. FG), who was not involved in this dogfight? 3.) Can somebody verify that JG 2 lost only 9 planes that day? Thx for your help! TCO |
Re: JG 2: FW 190 dogfight with P-47 on 10/21/1944
At least I./JG 2 and III./JG 2 were involved and that means two Groups of Fw 190. I have no information that they flew together on that day, but maybe somebody else has.
regards. John |
Re: JG 2: FW 190 dogfight with P-47 on 10/21/1944
I. and III./JG 2 lost in fact nine Fw 190 in the area NW, N, NE and E of Montabaur, at least the III. Gruppe a/c all around 1600 hrs:
Reichel (3., KIA) Stratmann (4., WIA) Prinzen (4., WIA) Kapschat (9., WIA) Mühlhäuser (9., KIA) Schmitt (9., KIA) Bellstedt (9., KIA) Hollain (9., KIA) Claasen (12., WIA) Uffz. Neumann (11.) was WIA, but returned to Bad Nauheim a/f. I've no futher GAF losses in this area... Hope this helps Heuser |
Re: JG 2: FW 190 dogfight with P-47 on 10/21/1944
Here is the Luftwaffe claims for that day: JaFü II. Jagdkorps/Lw.Kdo. West: 21.10.44 Gefr. Alfred Edelhoff 12./JG 2 P-47 £ 05 Ost N/OQ-5: 5.500 m. [Hochstenbach] 16.09 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. - 21.10.44 Fw. Mannetstetter 12./JG 2 P-47 £ 05 Ost N/OQ-5: 5.500 m. [Hochstenbach] 16.10 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. - 21.10.44 Fw. Siegfried Kapschat 9./JG 2 P-47 £ 05 Ost N/PQ-7: 5.000 m. [Katzenelbogen] 16.10 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. - 21.10.44 Fw. Raimund Kock 11./JG 2 P-47 £ 05 Ost N/OQ-4: 3.500 m. [Westerburg] 16.12 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. - 21.10.44 Ltn. Matthias Giglberger 11./JG 2 P-47 £ 05 Ost N/PQ-21: 4.200 m. [Westerwald] 16.15 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. - Supplemental Claims from Sources: 21.10.44 Uffz. Fröschmann: 4 11./JG 53 P-38 £ - - Reference: JG 53 Lists f. 1684 |
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