Re: No Spitfeur
 

The key time when RAF fighter performance mattered was in the BoB, and the Hurricane was (just) adequate for that. Arguably, the quality of the fighters didn't matter so much after that, as the survival of the country no longer depended on it.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

Re: No Spitfeur
 

I think to call the Hurricane a poor fighter aircraft is a tad unfair !! Cannock Chase (German war cemetery in England) and the English Channel are full of people and aircraft that would disagree !!

Likewise the BF110 often is called a poor fighter, but it inflicted significant losses in fighter v fighter combat, when a slashing attack could be made.

I think the Spitfire and the Hurricane together were a superb team. Remember that Hurricane could ofetn have combat damage repaired at its fighter base, and be back in combat the same day. The Spitfire often had to be sent away due to cannon shell hits on its stressed skin.

Also remember many many 109's fell to the Hurricane in 1940.
Messerschmitt 109, Spitfire or Hurricane.....i think in 1940 it was decided by the man in the cockpit more than the difference in performance of his fighting machine.

Re: No Spitfeur
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonny Just as a big WI is the choice of the Me109 over the He112, how would the BOB have faired without the Spitfire eg if Mitchell had not gone for the elliptical wing etc, resulting in no performance improvement over the Hurricane & it not going into production?

The Hurricane was good enough to prevent the Germans from gaining air superiority over England in 1940, with or without the Spitfires. If the Spits never went into production, I can think of two possible consequences:

1) With no Spitfires, the lesser speed and agility of the Hurricane might cause RAF Fighter Command to cancel their unnecessary and very costly offensive of 1941, saving many planes and pilots. The RAF could afford to play it safe for another year, and let the Luftwaffe take the biggest risks.

2) There would be serious pressure for faster development of the Merlin engine, Griffon engine, and the P-51. In 1942, Mustangs and Hurricanes might be powered by very high-boost Merlins, or better yet, Griffons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nonny the Hurricane won the BOB, could hold its own against a Me109 and had bags of development potential. But would it have been enough to take on the Fw190 in 1942?

If local air defense over the UK was the main task, then souped-up Hurricanes would be sufficient until the RAF could get Mustangs and Typhoons.

BTW, what if the FW-190 never went into production?

Re: No Spitfeur
 

A quicker solution might have been a Merlin-engined P-39. Now that could have been a nifty little number...

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

Re: No Spitfeur
 

Only if it got the 2 speed/2stage Merlins.

Re: No Spitfeur
 

Especially if the Brits upgraded to a 40mm Vickers S firing through the hub instead of the Oldsmobile 37mm!

Re: No Spitfeur
 

Interesting post and in my humble opinion, yes, either more Hurricanes or a different fighter to the Spit might not have altered the outcome of the battle. The Spit was ripe for its massive development potential for future operations. It went from strength to strength. It is generally agreed however that the Hurri was almost obsolete (compared to latest Luftwaffe types) as a point defence fighter by the end of 1940, marvellous as it was during the Battle of France and Britain. It had little development potential when compared to the Spit which was there at the right time.

"As for the Typhoon and Tempest, they were fast, greatly armed and were amazing air to ground fighters but were not great at fighter against fighter."
If I may disagree slightly here. The Tempest was fast, but not the fastest. A Spit XIV was faster flat out. However, the Tempest had a superb high cruise speed. Spits cruise speed was quite a bit slower. Therefore, the Tempest could mill around at very high speeds which was a major advantage for a great air to air fighter. It made it easier to dictate the fight.

Just a view from someone who loves both the Spit & Temp (and is very fond of the Hurri). Pardon the pun but don't shoot me down in flames!

Hurricane the 109 Killer
 

I have had the great pleasure of sitting next to P/O Ken Mackenzie at a Battle of Britain Society function this year and discussed the Hurricanes potential during the Battle. Mr Mackenzie flew the Huricane with 501 Squadron and i think destroyed or damaged 9 ME 109's upto November 1940. He said the Hurricane flown by a compotent pilot could match the 109 in a fight it just could not leave the battle easy due to its slow speed against the 109, however he said he could easily out turn one and get onto its tail ( as he obviously did ) and once in a scrap twisting and turning it was a great fighter to be in.
He said the only poor part on the Huricane was it having .303 machine guns later changed for the better upto 4 20mm cannon.

Many Luftwaffe fighter pilots fell to the Hurricane and it simply depends on the man in the cockpit.