Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

Vitaliy Gorbach's two books on the air battle at Kursk are good reading but they are only in Russian. He does list Strassl and G. Rall as reliable scorers in this battle. Hartmann is listed in his last book as claiming 4 on the the 03Aug43 with the III/JG52 claiming approx. 30 kills for that day. The II/SchG1 and NAGr2 each claimed a Il-2. The 5 VA and the 2 VA had 40 aircraft lost on the 03Aug43. In the book it states that they had a large number of damaged aircraft. Also a number of Il-2's making forced landings behind their lines and being recovered.

Johannes, Didn't Hartmann get shot down by a Il-2 gunner from the 8 VA in Aug 43? Bergstrom listed him as the victor over a number of Soviet aces in his last book.

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

Hi CJ

Forward me your e.mail address and I'll send you Strassl, Wiese, Krupinski and Hartmann's full abschusse lists.

Regards

Johannes

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who has responded to this thread. Very helpful.
I will try to get Mr. Gorbach's books, thanks for the suggestion Nokose.
Johannes, thank you for the help and the generous offer.

Thanks to all of you!

V/R
CJ Mohr

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

Nikita, the information on Strassl and his victims' identity are hugely helpful. Thanks.

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

Am I to assume from your thankful message that the massive claims of Strassl during the battle are verified from russian sources ?

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

Actually, those days from July 5 up to July 15-17, claims are not subjected to correct identification, since there were too many clashes and too many claims.

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

No, nothing like that. I don't have the Russian records supporting Hubert Strassl's claims. But I was interested to hear the specific HSU holder who was killed in the combat. For me some of the interest is in finding these linked stories.

Re: Seeking help with research about JG-52 and JG-51 during Zitadelle
 

I'm not sure which fail to who and the times but it does relate to Strassl for the 08Jul43. Following from the book by Gorbach and Khazanov and Tony Wood's list.
Losses:
8 GBAP
A-20B St. Serz. Ivanov & crew MIA
A-20B St. Serz. Tarantin & crew MIA
A-20B Lt. Polikanov : Attacked by EA, left motor caught fire, forced landed in the Kalinovka region, fuel tank exploded. two crew members perished and two survived.
A-20B St. Lt. Loskutov's crew MIA

57 BAP
A-20B Lt. Kandrashin Hit by AAA, repeatedly attacked by EA. Forced landed in the D. Khmelovoe region. Three crew members WIA and 1 MIA.
A-20B Kosobokov's crew MIA

Lt. Guenther Scheel 2/JG54 8:04 Boston 63 561
Oblt. Franz Eisenach 3/JG54 8:06 Boston 63 563
Ofw Richard Brand 10/JG51 8:08 Boston 63 574
Uffz Heinrich Dittlmann 7/JG51 12:17 Boston 63 812
Ofw Hubert Strassl 8/JG51 12:27 Boston 63 675