Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=25346)

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

John, you're right. How the heck did I do that?

Bf 110C-4, 2083, n.n., , III., III., ZG 76, , , , , 10-Jan-41, Bauchlandung due to tire damage., , Lfl.5/Norwegen, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #3)-Vol.4, , Stavenger, 30%, H, , ,

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Hello all,

This proves that W.Nr.2083 was the successor a/c to the earlier 2N+AN. Now to confirm the pilot was that flew this a/c marked with 7 victory tabs @ 9.40 during the Battle of Britain. Any help there?

Regards,

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Hi Larry

Tried to e.amil you ZG76 claims, but your e.mail address is unobtainable!

Regards

Johannes

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Hi, all

Reverting to the original question - I believe I have a few photos of Kutscha in an album I obtained a few years back, and will check to see if I can positively ID him.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

http://zg48voss.narod.ru/images/phot...xp_kutscha.jpg http://www.brooksart.com/Herbert%20Kutscha.jpg

Gentlmen: this are the only photos of Herbert I have. These were taken in 42-43, I beleive in 1940 (on photo in front of 2N+AN) he looks much younger :)

Jim: 2083 was C-2, not C-4.

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko (Post 127575)

Jim: 2083 was C-2, not C-4.

Evgeny,

If I may explain.
The C-2 had the MG-FF 20 mm Kanonen fitted.
The C-4 had the MG-FF/M 20 mm Kanonen fitted.
The Petrick/Mankau table of W. Nr. in their book is taken from factory lists.
During the Battle of Britain, many 'C' variants were recorded in the loss/damage lists at unit level as 'C-4', but a check of the Petrick/Mankau list gives them as 'C-2'.
It is my view that during the production run of the C-2 (for which the factory held the paper records), the MG-FF/M became available, and so the MG-FF/M were fitted, and they were shipped out as 'C-4's.

Hence, the W. Nr. in the original records for 2083 shows 'C-2', but the damage report Jim has quoted shows 'C-4'.

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evgeny Velichko (Post 127524)

John:

Looking on photos of III./ZG76 aircrafts in spring 1941 (may-april), I can say:

At least 7./ZG76 and 9./ZG76 changed their fourth character of code from M to R and from P to T.

Also, if we will look in III./ZG76 losslist, we will see:

8./ZG76 lost a/c with code 2N+GS, and 7./ZG76 lost 2N+DR and 2N+KR.

Then: ZerstorerStaffel./JG77 was formed from parts of 7./ZG76, and took some zerstorers from that Staffel. For some time, they kept its original code 2N+_R, but in early summer 1941 1st character was changed from "2" to "L", and "DaschhundStaffel" got its code LN+_R.

It seems, only Stab III./ZG76 kept its "C" charachter and didnt changed it to "D". I have two photos of same a/c - 2N+GC while with III./ZG76 in Norway and S9+GC while with II./SKG210 in USSR.

About 2N+AN - I have photo of D-3 2N+AN, and I may only suggest that it was (if not lost with code not listed) renamed in 2N+AS and later S9+AN. It was probably lost in early days of Barbarossa campaign, because next S9+AN was lost already in late july 1941.

Evgeny,
In 1940, everything shows that III./ZG 76 did not revert to the normal letters associated with III. Gruppe aircraft.

With regard to your last paragraph, what I am trying to say is that for research purposes, you should not make the 'leap of faith' in stating that a particular aircraft went through various code changes, unless you have the supporting evidence, i.e. a common W. Nr.. You cannot state wth certainty that 2N+AN in 1940 became S9+AN in 1941. Did those elements of III./ZG 76 that went to form II./SKG 210 take their aircraft with them? Or were they outfitted with new aircraft for the start of the Russian campaign. I don't have the answer to that one. Do you?

Re: Need help identifying pilot of 1940 Bf110 from 8./ZG76 with 7 victories

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vasco (Post 127585)

Or were they outfitted with new aircraft for the start of the Russian campaign. I don't have the answer to that one. Do you?

Yes, John, I havent an answer too. It was my only suggestion, thats all. Anyway, there were several S9+AN's before Kutscha got his S9+AN in late autumn 1941.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vasco (Post 127584)

It is my view that during the production run of the C-2 (for which the factory held the paper records), the MG-FF/M became available, and so the MG-FF/M were fitted, and they were shipped out as 'C-4's.

Agreed fully.