Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

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Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

I know that a group of British Army types toured Germany and other parts of Europe after the Second World War looking for graves of allied service men in order to document and prepare their remains for removal to proper cemeteries. I do know that reports were filled out and they contained in detail what was found and location etc. Now, what I would like to know is if one was filled out for McLeod and if any photos were taken of the wreck?

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Stephen

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

Hi,

It's interesting sometimes to look back at old posts - this one caught my eye as I have just read Dilip Sarkar's latest "Spitfire -Ace Of Aces" a full bio on Johnny Johnson ( incorporating his 2 previous volumes - Spitfire Top Gun 1+2 and adding the final months of Johnson's combat career).In it on pp273 he attributes Wally McLeods loss to Major Siegfried Freytag the acting Kommodore of JG.77 ! and not to a JG.76 pilot - does this stand up ?

Cheers

Bruce Lander

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

Acoording to Shore "2nd Tactical AF", Maj Freytag claimed his victim at 0930, probably in a fight with 421 SQ.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niederrhein 01 (Post 13115)

Hello everyone,

Just signed on to the forum, I have to reply to the question over Sqn/Ldr McLeod as maybe this way I can get the information that I have been searching for during the past 2 years.

According to Franks Vol 3, McLeod was found after the war NNW of Wesel, in a reply I received from the AHB way back in 2003, he was buried in Elten cemetery in Germany just to the north west of Emmerich, transferred to Reichswald cemetery Plot 2, row B, Grave 12 and then transferred again to Rhineberg cemetery Plot 8, row E, Grave 25.

Firstly, why was he transferred from Reichswald to Rheinberg ? and has anybody got information as to if Elten really was his original burial place or was Elten used after the war as a temporary cemetery until the offical military cemeteries were completed.?

The reason why I am so interested in McLeod is I have an unconfirmed eyewitness report from an elderly woman who says that a british Spitfire pilot was recovered after the war from a small german village to the west of the Rhine river mid to late 1945, the wreckage of the Spitfire was then in late 45 early 46 removed from the site . As McLeod was lost NNW of Wesel (Franks) and shot down by a 109 20 miles east of Nijmegen (AHB), this puts the village of Obermörmter close to both.

As to who shot him down , there are still a lot of possibilities, the claims from JG 76 are whittled down to 5, 3 claims given while 2 were not confirmed, all in the Emmerich area between 13.26 and 13.55 apart from the given claim of Lt. Boer which states his Spitfire came down at Apeldoorn, which if my geography is correct is to the north of Arnheim. There is however, an Appeldorn village only 5km away from Obermörmter, maybe a spelling mistake on the german side. There are two more claims for the early afternoon from JG 4 that also come into consideration, also in the Emmerich area, about 13.50-13.58.

If anyone has access or very good contact to the MRES records, which I believe are still restricted, then they could resolve the question of where he was lost.

Hoping for a reply

Niederrhein 01

Hallo,
ORB 443 Squadron
UP 12.20 Down: 13.50 British time!!
Aircraft despatched on high patrol to Nijmegen-Venlo with W/C J.E Johnson, Wingco Flying No. 127 Wing, leading.
Nine Me 109's sighted flying west at 1.000'at Rees and engaged 20 miles east of Nijmegen. Our a./c bounced from 9.000' and in dogfight one Me 109 was destroyed by each of the following:
W/C J.E Johnson, F/L E.B Stovel, F/Lt D.M. Walz, F/L H.P. Fuller, F/O W.A.G. Gilbert. A probable is claimed by F/L Stovel and another by W/O R.A Hodgins. S/L H.W. McLeod, DSO, DFC&Bar is mising after the mission, there being no information on his whereabouts after the bounce was made. A/C flown by F/L E.B. Stovel shot up by enemy cannon and despite large hole in port wing, he was able to return to base. Innacurate, moderate light flak at A-0852, innacurate, moderate light flak at E-9238.
Weather: 9/10ths cloud at 5-6.000'.
ORB form 541

412 squadron RCAF
Up 11.30 h Down 13.30-13.45 British time
12 a/c Low Frontline Patrol in the Nijmegen Area.
In Reichswald Forest War Cemetery Grave 2-B-12 is resting:
P/O Paul Emile Hurtubise
Spitfire NH-189

I am in possesion of a report (Air Ministry S.14 Cas. 2/12/1948) which says:
..as we have no other outstanding fighter missing which fits, the grave is accepted for J-4912 Squadron Leader McLeod.
But grave 2-B-12 (now!)contains the remains of P/O Hurtubise!!!
I know that an unknown Canadian fighter pilot was buried at Elten. Crashed in his Spitfire just East of Elten.

I do not know when or where (NW of Wesel?)the body of MCLeod was found, but i think they did not bury him in Reichswald Forest at all! I think he was recovered and buried in Rheinberg War Cemetery!
But I have no proof!

See also McLeod in LBB (Luftwaffe Bullet Board)

Regards
Karl Lusink
ARGA

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lander (Post 136806)

Bruce:

Wow! I missed this somehow. Wing Leader was an early read of mine way back when (let's just say it was before cars had fins ;)). What's the evaluation of Sarkar's book on Johnson?
It always mystified me whay he scored no victories for the last 7 months. Does this book look at that issue?

THX

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

Attached are the Ultras I have on fighter actions on 27 September, in case they're helpful.

Re: Oblt Emil Lang & SqLdr Wally McLeod-two mysteries

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Beale (Post 137684)

Attached are the Ultras I have on fighter actions on 27 September, in case they're helpful.

Thanks Nick !!

Regards
Karl Lusink
ARGA