Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - Moving Barkhorn story . . . (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=28434)

Re: Moving Barkhorn story . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov (Post 141799)

Barkhorn used to finish belly-landed planes on the ground. I don't think he showed some mercy towards those in the air.

Funny when WW2" crops up-(WHAT DO I HEAR-NAZI) in WW1 tiger jones did say he shot parachutes.in my opinion he was intitled too.
but that he never made a habit out of it...
''GET A LIFE!!

Re: Moving Barkhorn story . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikita Egorov (Post 141818)

Hi, Joerg,

The majority of German aces tried to finish off the plane on the ground, if there was an opportunity to do so. Little of them shot the hanging parachutes. I have several cases with no clear indication who particularly did this...

IIRCone condition of accepted kill in LW was that the enemy plane was destroyed. There was a sound military logic behind that if the plane bellylanded onto its own side. IMHO morally there was a difference if the strafer wanted to kill also the pilot/crew or not. But after all it was a war and the killing of able-body enemy soldier who had not surrendered was legal.

Juha

Re: Moving Barkhorn story . . .

Actually, the Law of Armed Conflict states that it is illegal to shoot at anyone who does not have the ability to defend themselves/shoot back (so not legal if he is simply able-body).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juha (Post 141888)

Re: Moving Barkhorn story . . .

Hello
I’m not a lawyer but had based my opinion on two cases, one was the decision of the German war-crime investigation bureau, which decided after complains by some KM sailors that RN acted lawfully, when one RN DD opened fire with a pom-pom against them during Narvik battles in 1940 after survivors from a sunk German DD had reached land. According to the German investigators it would have been illegal to fire the German sailors while they were swimming or on a life boat but at the moment they reached firm land under control of Germans they became lawful targets to 40mm automatic canon.

Second case was the famous/infamous case when a US Army lawyer decided that a Apache attack helo could kill a couple insurgents that tried to surrender because of the helo could not take prisoners. IIRC the decision was seen as controversial, but if an army lawyer can make that kind of decision IMHO it wouls have been difficult to punish a pilot who shot an enemy pilot running away his crash landed plane, especially because LW and USAAF pilots had usually a side arm, IIRC Commonwealth pilots usually didn’t carry side arm.

Juha

Re: Moving Barkhorn story . . .

Quote:

Originally Posted by harrison987 (Post 141896)

Actually, the Law of Armed Conflict states that it is illegal to shoot at anyone who does not have the ability to defend themselves/shoot back (so not legal if he is simply able-body).

Paratroopers are 'legal' targets. They carry weapons but have no way of defending themselves while parachuting to earth.

Re: Moving Barkhorn story . . .

Hello Oberst
an excellent point, German paras, they belonged to LW, jumped armed only with pistols up to and incl Crete, their rifles etc. were dropped same time in arms canisters, but all sides saw them as legitime targets all the way down and on ground even before they reached their arms canisters.

Juha