Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

udf,

Okay, thanks, I've reworked my 5 Staffel roster for mid-June and come up with 11 pilots, one of whom was badly injured in a crash on 16.6.40, and one of whom was away on a special mission:

Oblt. Herbert? Schneider, StaKap (a/o 14.5.40 until ??)
Oblt Erich Stoffregen (later 6. Staffel Kap)
Lt Wolfgang Mann (badly injured 16.6.40)
Lt Werner Baumbach (away on special duty)
Fw FNU Kühnast (Fw Arthur Kühnast Killed in plane crash in France with IV./KG30 on 18.9.41- probably same guy.)
Fw FNU Lorbeer
Fw Willi Erkens (promoted since Uffz on 27.4.40?)
Fw FNU Friedrich
Uffz FNU Schröder
Uffz FNU Geffgen (belly landing on 17.6.40 "Lancastria" mission)
Uffz Peter Stahl (flew on 17.6.40 "Lancastria" mission)

Does this look right? Can anyone else add any pilots, first names, or further information to help complete this 5 Staffel roster, or identify other members of II./KG30 that might have taken part in the "Lancastria" attack? Does anyone know when Oblt. FNU Schneider took command of 5. Staffel and when he departed? Does anyone know the first name of Hptm. (Erich--added by LJH) Hass (LJH spelling corrected), the referenced 4. Staffel Kap, and his dates of service as commander of that unit, which may well have participated in the 17.6.40 attack? It appears from loss data that 6 Staffel was still operating out of Norway in mid-June, and wouldn't have likely been available to participate in the "Lancastria" attack.

I just found this entry in our EoE DB for May 12th, which seems to refer to the StaKap, Oblt. Schneider, but does not seem consistent with the above info, unless, as a prisoner of the Dutch, Schneider was released almost immediately and wasn't badly injured:

"May 12, 1940: 5./KG30 Junkers 88A-1. Shot down while attacking shipping off IJmuiden by No. 264 Squadron Defiants and No. 66 Squadron Spitfires, and belly-landed with port engine alight at Hazerswoude (Netherlands) but crashed into the Hazerwoude to Koudekerk railway embankment 2.30 p.m. BS Flgr Siegfried Lahm, and BO Uffz Willi Borowka both killed, BF Fw Theophil Schwarz captured badly wounded, died May 21, FF Oberlt Herbert Schneider captured wounded – later released. Aircraft 100% write-off. (Source: Pieter Hooijmanns)"

Regards,

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

Hello,

There are seven Herbert Schneiders in the Luft Off Career DB, none of which are certainly the person mentioned in my previous post. Perhaps this one?

SCHNEIDER, Herbert. (DOB: 23.11.15). 01.09.39 Oblt., in KG 27. 01.06.42 promo to Hptm. 08.01.43 Hptm., appt Staka 10./KG 30 (to 15.06.43).

Can anyone confirm that this is the right one?

Regards,

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

FYI: From Peter Stahl's book, 17 June was his 3rd combat mission and the first where he bombed while under attack by a fighter. He claims it was a Morane, but I have established that it was probably a No1 Squadron Hurricane. He also states that he dropped behind his compatriots to conserve his engines. His MO at the time was to hang back to see where the flak was coming from so that he could avoid it. He states that as he arrived he saw one of his colleagues diving away smoking further up the estuary. I have another reference to that incident that puts it nearly a hour after the sinking of the Lancastria. So Stahl did not attack the Lancastria. He dropped his load in a hurry because of the Hurricane and did not check to see if he had hit anything, probably because he knew he had missed.
Mark.

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

Hello,

Two further revisions to my info above. I believe that the 4 StaKap was Oblt Erich Hass, who was promoted to Gr Kdr II./KG30 on 9.10.40 before fatally crashing in England on 16.10.40.

The Oblt. Stoffregen, was Oblt. Erich Stoffregen who became StaKap of 6./KG30 on November 22, 1940.

Any further information on this subject of the roster for II./KG30 would be appareciated.

Regards,

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

A bit of a puzzle but a cursory look reveals:

Gr Kdr at the time was Hptm Claus Hinkelbein (to 20 Sep 40).
Replaced by Hptm Karl-Joachim Von Szymonski (+ 8 Oct 40)

Oblt Karl Overweg was St Kap of 5/KG 30 to 3 Apr 40.
NVM says that Oblt Theo Beermann was St Kap of 5/KG 30 until POW 10 May 40. This is possibly a typo as his EKM would indicate 4/KG 30.

Oblt Herbert Schneider was shot down 12 May 40. On 24 Jun 40 he was reported as being in the Reservelazarette 2 at Münster so it cannot be the same man flying on 17 Jun 40.

Oblt Rudolf Quadt was St kap of 6/KG 30 to 29 Mar 40.
I have St Kap of 6/KG 30 Hptm Günter Noll but he was POW 16 May 40.

There was a Hptm Karl-Ferdinand Schneider lost with II/KG 30 8 Mar 41. He was flying a 4 Staffel ac but is it possible he was the Gr Kdr (I do not have access to the NVM or QMG Returns at the moment)

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

Hello all,

Thanks for the continuing comments. Chris, I've worked out pretty much the same as you did on the leadership side. I'm in the process of trying to construct a full KG30 leadership list, with service dates and outcomes for 1.9.39 - 31.12.40, which is very complicated. This will include, if successful, all Gesch, Gr and StaKap listings, and any unit adj. 1a or TOs where known. I'm going to open this as a separate topic on both the LEMB & TOCH Boards. As you've noted, there may be some typos in the Officer's Career Bios posted online. I'm going to try and post everything that I have on that subject, pointing out the problem areas, then let everyone take their best shots at this, and provide anything that I've missed. If we're going to follow the plan for the EoE Project series, I've got to create one of these for each Luft unit that flew combat or combat support missions during the project period, a huge and rather daunting job. Jochen Prien's team has done this for the day fighters, so with enough support and help I'm hoping that we can do this for all the other units. We'll see where we can get to with this. The same will be done on each unit on the Allied side.

I'm the meantime, for his part in the "Lancastria" discussion, Peter Cornwell has revised out Luft EoE Loss DB for two of the entries that day, in part based upon the inputs from this board:

June 17, 1940:

"Amend: 3./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Returned to Merville damaged by AA fire following attack on shipping in the Loire estuary off St-Nazaire 1.25 p.m. BO Oberfw Lufwig Edmüller killed, BM Fw Franz Erdel and BF Obergefr Herbert Krauss both slightly wounded, FF Oberlt Siegmund-Ulrich Fr von Gravenreuth (Staffelkapitän 1./KG30) unhurt. Aircraft 5% damaged - repairable.
Believed to be among the aircraft that attacked and seriously damaged the SS Oronsay during the first wave of attacks that afternoon, von Gravenreuth’s logbook noting a direct hit on a 10,000 ton transport."

"Add: 5./KG30 Junkers Ju88A-1. Belly-landed on return to Le Culot damaged in attack by Flight Sergeant G. F. Berry of No.1 Squadron during attack on shipping in the Loire estuary off St-Nazaire 4.45 p.m. FF Uffz [ ] Geffken and rest of crew all unhurt. Aircraft 10% damaged - repairable.
One of the second wave of 14 Ju88s from II./KG30 that attacked and sunk the SS Lancastria, standing patrols of allied fighters may have provided some small sense of security to troops on the vessels below but were clearly unable to prevent such attacks - as British experience at Dunkirk should have proved. Two further waves of attacks by Ju88s from III./LG1 and II./LG1 followed later in the afternoon."

As you can see, we still need the first name of "Uffz [ ] Geffken." I find no listing under that name in the Kracker Archive. I wonder if we have correct spelling on this one? Anybody got any ideas?

Moving forward.

Regards,

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

Hello,

One more thing to add here, I think that I've found the Kühnast listed in my 5. Staffel unit roster for mid-June (see above). There was a Fw Arthur Kühnast in a Ju88A-5 W.Nr. 4125 with IV KG30 who died in a crash near Bretigny, France, on 18.9.41. The unit, rank and general timing works. Plus this is a fairly unusual name, so I'm pretty sure that we've the got the first name on another one. I can find no further records on Geffken (almost sure spelling is wrong), Lorbeer, or anything reliable on Schröder or Friedrich. Schneider, the StaKap, still remains up in the air as far as confirmation is concerned.

Can anybody help here?

Regards,

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

The English translation of Peter Stahl's book spells the name "Geffgen" with a "g". Maybe that is the correct spelling.

Mark

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

Mark,

Thanx. No listing under the spelling "Geffgen" or "Geffken" in the Kracker Luftwaffe pilot's archive. I suspect that Peter's spelling of the name as "Geffken" was a typo on his part, which will be fixed if that is the case. We still need to pin down who this guy was, and locate a photo of his belly landed aircraft if possible. It has probably already appeared on one of the eBay auction listings, but just not in such a way that it was identifiable. "Geffgen" does appear to be a legitimate spelling for a German last name, so at least the name is plausible.

Regards,

Re: Need info on two Luft. pilots from II./KG30 that attacked the Lancastria on 17.06.40
 

To my amazement in my local library there is a book The Forgotten Tragedy The Story of the Sinking of HMT Lancastria by Brian James Crabb He names a Geffgen and has him as an unteroffizer