Strange 109
 

Hi,

Not my usual area but to me it actually looks like some form of launching rail. Something launched along it would certainly miss the prop. From the fittings visible I think that this rail could also be dumped whilst in the air from a control in the cockpit.

Okay I hear you all cry, ' Stick to Heinkel 111s you might know a bit more about them'!!!

Regards

David

Well, where are markings experts? The aircraft wears a dark non-factory camouflage - I would date it 1942 and later - too late for a Toni trials. Note the spinner in green/white quick recognition scheme - not later than 1944?
I stand by my comment the thing most likely was a LW (ULW?) aerial, lowered in flight - note lack of paint on it. Purpose of LW is long range communication and ULW also communication with submarines. That would make sense but why to test it on such a small aircraft like 109?

thoughts
 

Hi,
I had my thoughts about smoke laying on another board, still can't see how it would be practical.
However the launching rails ideas , and having just had a nice glass of wine, made me think.
If the rail is jettisonable and it is a 109T,
Could the launching rail, not be to launch a weapon, but to launch the 109 ? the angle seems right to clear the prop on take off from a ramp.
A bit like a CAM hurricane, to give the german navy ships much needed fighter support, having no aircraft carriers ?
Might be a nice asset to a german raider, when spotted by an allied recce a/c, more punch than an AR-196.
But as I said I have just had a glass of nice bulgarian wine.
Cheers
Jerry

The earlier catapult trials didn't show the need for such a device, why in this case? What would be the logic behind fixing such a device to the aircraft in the first place?

thoughts
 

Hi,
As i said just some thoughts, But just as wild are , towing bars, and smoke laying with a single engined fighter, etc...
One odd thing there seems no sign of the rails in the crash photos, which gives points to the previous suggestion they are jettisonable.
But a lot of wartime ideas seem to have no logic when looked at afterwards.
Cheers
Jerry

It looks like an armlike structure, the piece attached to the ETC looks like a joint, almost looking like a test version of the feeler arm used on the Bv 143.

IMHO such a test setup seems more logical than a fixed launching device which on top is placed at an angle of the flight path.

The Bf 109T was still a small single engine fighter, probably ideally suited to test technology that was aimed at a naval cruise missile/glide bomb.

Actually unless I see a better explanation, I think I like my guess best :wink:

From the HyperScale Plane Talking -forum thread (direct link given earlier by Modeldad).

"William
German Navy used this 109-T for
Mon Jan 24, 2005 17:45
24.67.253.203

Shore battery tests..It is a Naval Smoke Generator, Field fixed to the Airframe."

When asked about source the answer was:


When asked about source the answer was:


"William
Showed this pic to a retired Luftwaffe pilot
Mon Jan 24, 2005 21:48
24.67.253.203

four years ago.(he,s well into his 80,s)..thats what he said it was..the idea was that in case of invasion they wanted to "Obscure" the coastal batteries with smoke thus protecting them from Allied naval guns..If you look at it it will CLICK..could,t have been used at high altitude for anything(its what I told him everybody thought it was)he said way too much drag..its what caused the crash at low landing speed...and for icing trials..well you,d have to get way up there and carry hundeds of gallons of water,no.
The long pipe was just to keep the pilots view clear as he made his low altitude run in front emplacements while smoke poured ot behind him."


Now,

How should we value the statement/message above? Is it genuine?

I think the answer William gives is the most plausible. Ammunition bin storage area within the nose of Bf 109E would provide enough room for smoke agent. For example Piper Pawnee has it's spray tank like that - forward of cockpit. Bf 109 would have provided a fast way to lay smoke screen if emergency arised.


It might interest people that FinnAF did actually fly Bf 109 with smoke generator under belly. This happened post war. I don't know many such flights total was done but one flight was during a mock attack against "enemy" air field during war games. The smoke screen was drawn between AAA guns and the target they protected. That way the Bf 109 JaBos could make their attack more easily. At least that is how I remember it from my reading.

I don't know what the Finnish smoke generator it was - it was just called "can" or somesuch. Captured soviet ones were used with (also captured) SB bombers during the war. It seems the long pipe underneath was not needed, even for the Bf 109.

I wonder if the idea of using Bf 109 as smoke generator plane came from Germany or if it was just result of not much else being available. Planes with interior bomb bay were/are prohibited for FinnAF according the peace agreement of 1948.

Cheers,
Kari

If it is a navy type smoke generator, shouldn't it be recognizable as such by those with more Naval expertise? Also wouldn't such a device look similar regardless of country dictated by its function?

So the first step, to see if the quote is worth anything, is to look for Naval smoke generators, or even start with smoke generators in general.

I'm almost certain that I've seen a photo of an a/c laying an aerial smoke screen, however I'm not sure anymore about the type, it could have been german, but it might have been a Russian or Japanese a/c (the latter probably a E13A). Starting to mix up subjects.

I think looking for similar devices would be a good start to proof or disproof the thesis.

OTOH, it does look similar to the altitude probe I was talking about - visually speaking.

Photos of RAF smokelayers are at recent 2 TAF book. They are definetelly different. The thing on the 109 does not look like a pipe at all - where is the exhaust for the smoke?

Air-to-air refuling
 

I have recenlty seen a drawing of Bf 109 over the multi-engine plane, with lowered 'device' that connected to the plane below and refueled Bf 109 in flight thru that 'device'.

Crazy or tested?

Maybe Militararchive Freiburg can tell?

All the best,

Marko