Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum - Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

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Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Well John,

Why answering questions at all...? That's a good question and a right one by all means. Maybe for the sake of this concept getting stranger everyday in our current world: to share?

Through sharing one can be even rewarded throughout the way the question formulated might shed some new light on informations one thinks to have gone through but turn then in a different light....bringing thus a newly won knowledge...

This happens quite frequently in my own scientific field, archaeology. It might even happen here in the forum, undoubtedly a subtle form of blessing for all passionate people who gather around TOCH. Just my two cents...

Marc

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

John, I am once again indebted to you for the additional information, much appreciated. Many thanks again.
Regards
Tony K

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Marc,

has nothing to do with not willing to share, even if it becomes more and more a one way street.....

When I read that a member tries to answer a question and if asked gives his sources and the next question is to post copies of the sources (NVM) to proof his statements while the member who posts the question does not add anything except an opinion....than I think we have reached the limit.

Tell me why would I bother to spend time to answer questions (time that you can not spend on your own research) and that would be followed up by a demand like listed above?. My gut feeling says we have too many "internet" researchers on this forum and the good ones are gone or hardly post anymore.

regards,

John

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Hopefully, there are also ground digger :D

ClinA-78

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Manrho (Post 181763)

To Tony;

Stab II./JG 77 flew with all Staffeln (5. 6. and 7.). I do not believe a 8. Staffel existed yet. Take off with 26 Bf 109 from Werl at 08.40 hours (one hour time difference with GMT so this is 07.40 hours Allied time). Losses were;

Lt. Lothar Peemüller (5. Staffel), killed, near Borken.
Hptm. Franz Hrdlicka (5. Staffel), wounded, 6 km south Bocholt.
Uffz. Walter Quandel (5. Staffel), slightly injured, 6 km south Arnhem.
Uffz. Franz Gollner, (5. Staffel), killed, Raum Arnhem-Nijmegen.
Uffz. Hans Röhrig (5. Staffel), killed, near Lobith.
Gefr. Horst Ullmann (5. Staffel), killed, Doornenburg (recovered 1993).
Gefr. Alfred Hoffschmidt (6. Staffel), wounded, Raum Nijmegen.
Uffz. Herbert Plackmeyer (6. Staffel), killed, near Borken.
Uffz. Franz Mayer (6. Staffel), missing, Raum Nijmegen.
Fj.Fw. Klaus Rüter (7. Staffel), killed, near Rhede.

II./JG 77 also claimed two Spitfires. One by Maj. Freytag (at 09.23 hrs, being 08.23 hrs Allied time) and by Uffz. Quandel at 10.00 hrs. As Uffz. Quandel was shot down also his claim must have been reported after his return to the Gruppe. Time might be approximate.

To Franck,

My statement was a general one and not specific directed to you. Also nothing to do with if I wrote a book or not. It is about doing proper research. I have noticed lately that many people on this forum only do "desk" research and not serious research. It are those that "demand" proof from the serious researcher to substantiate statements. I particular did not like the "brownish" discussion on LEMB and TOCH. Unfortunately several people who do serious research are not on this forum anymore. Why would that be?

Concerning this discussion, indeed I should have been more clearer in my initial contribution to explain why I reached that conclusion. But, on the other hand.....why would I bother answering questions at all........

Regards,

John.

Dear John,

May I ask why Unteroffizier Werner Gölckel is not listed here? Is that because the crash in the region of Oberhausen/Sterkrade falls outside the scope of Arnhem-Nijmegen area? Or did he not take off at 08.40 hrs?

Kind regards, Timon

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Timon,

not sure why I did not list it in 2014....probably because it was too far of...

Updating the list of II./JG 77 losses:

Uffz. Werner Gölcke (5. Staffel), slightly injured, Oberhausen-Sterkrade.
Lt. Lothar Peemüller (5. Staffel), killed, Borkenwirthe, Krs. Borken.
Hptm. Franz Hrdlicka (5. Staffel), wounded, 6 km south Bocholt.
Uffz. Walter Quandel (5. Staffel), slightly injured, 6 km south Arnhem.
Uffz. Franz Gollner, (5. Staffel), killed, Niel north of Kranenburg.
Uffz. Hans Röhrig (5. Staffel), killed, near Lobith.
Gefr. Horst Ullmann (5. Staffel), killed, Doornenburg (recovered 1993).
Gefr. Alfred Hoffschmidt (6. Staffel), wounded, Raum Nijmegen.
Uffz. Herbert Plackmeyer (6. Staffel), killed, Burlo, 8 km NW Borken.
Uffz. Franz Mayer (6. Staffel), missing, Raum Nijmegen.
Fj.Fw. Klaus Rüter (7. Staffel), killed, Vardingholt, 8 km NW Borken.

Hope this helps,
John

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Good answer John. Your Bodenplatte book is an excellent book

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Hptm. Hrdlicka's a/c crashed at Bremenhorst near Bocholt.
Hrdlicka (FSA) landed at Bungern. Time: 10.20 hrs. Wounded.
Source: Archive Bocholt.
Regards
Karl Lusink

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

From ULTRA HP 1865:

Total effort, firstly Jagdkorps II (a) on 27th 119 aircraft serviceable. Morning, JG 2 and JG 26 operated against four-engined raid. Losses: 2 Fw 190 shot down, 1 pilot killed, one wounded; 4 Fw 190 still missing on 29th. Afternoon, JG 2, JG 27 and JG 27 operated. Combat Krefeld area. Losses: 4 Me 109 still missing on 29th. Total sorties 187.

Re: Identity of BF109 claim by P/O Sid Bregman 27Sept.1944

Nick, these are numbers concerning II. JK. Of course II./JG 77 belonged to 3. JD