Re: Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941
 

Right, Stig. I really was a week in Germany for something and came back last night.
It seems, that this question is already solved, but anyway I can confirm the details given by you from Hannu Valtonen's book. That this loss was filed under Luftflotte 4, is a little bit strange, because I/JG 77 was subordinated to Lfl. Süd already in July 1942 and the loss was reported on October 1942.
Just one minor addition: the location is quite possibly Verkhneye Kotozero. Russian word "Ozero" means "lake". "Kotozerolla" in Finnish means "at Kotozero". In Finland we don't use prepositions but funny endings at words. "..lla" means in Finnish "at" or "on" or sometimes even "by".
Maybe this raises your interest in my very easy phonetic language, which before WW 2, was even proposed by some lunatics as a common "World language" like esperanto.
OK, back to business. I will continue browsing emails.

Matti

Re: Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941
 

Thanks Matti

Yes my wife has already tried to explain some of the more interesting aspects of the Finnish language to me, such as your odd endings. One aspect of this is the creation of very long words which seems to make at least me run out of breath halfway!:)
Guess I am either too old or too stupid to catch on to such intricacies since they seem to enter one ear and disappear out of the other....:o:D

Anyway, I wonder why neither Prien et all and Mombeek has noticed this one.
Maybe it is in an update somewhere, I never checked that (too many books...)

Cheers
Stig

Re: Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941
 

Hi, all

At August 20th 1942, Stab JG 77 was reported as subordinated to Luftflotte 4, I. Gruppe under M.u.A. (Mittelmeer und Afrika), II. Luftwaffenkommando Ost and III. Gruppe Luftflotte 4.

On the next reporting date, August 31st 1942, the Stab JG 77 was subordinated to the Luftwaffenkommando Ost, I. Gruppe still M.u.A., II. and III. Gruppe both Luftwaffenkommando Ost.

It is no mystery to me then, as the loss records should go from Staffel through Gruppe, then to Geschwader and Luftflotte. I believe thus that this old loss simply went up the reporting ladder and ended up in Luftflotte 4 HQ before being transferred for registration to the RLM in Berlin, and filed under Luftflotte 4.

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941
 

I follow you Andreas

However the mystery to me is why it took almost a year for the incident to be reported up the ladder.....:confused:

Cheers
Stig

Re: Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941
 

This is interesting.

I have three claims for the 17th September by 81Sqn, 151 Wing. Two were definite 'hit the ground' claims but only one loss is listed.

The next combat was on 17th September when eight Hurricanes of 81 Squadron were on defensive patrol at 1830pm escorting some Russian bombers back from there target. Whilst over Balucha, NW of Murmansk the escort was bounced by two Bf109E's. At 1855pm S/Leader A. Rook in BD792 opened fire as a Bf109E passed ahead and glycol poured from it. Chasing it for five minutes S/Leader Rook ran out of bullets, Sgt P Sims in Z5228 and Sgt A Anson in Z5207 gave chase and eventually the enemy's aircraft engine caught fire and the Bf109 crashed besides a lake.
Meanwhile the second Bf109E was being chased by F/Sgt C Haw in Z5208 as it passed ahead. Gradually F/Sgt Haw was having an effect with smoke started pouring out from the engine and on the last attack a large piece flew off and the Bf109 went into a vertical dive. The pilot baled out and was reportedly captured.
A little later at 19.15 six more Bf109E's dived on the Russian bombers and escorts and P/O B Bush in Z4017 turned port and gave chase to the outside Bf109E. A dog fight ensued and P/O Bush was able to out turn the enemy aircraft and open fire. Thick black smoke poured from the aircraft and it crashed into a hill. The Russian bombers and Hurricanes returned safely and three Bf109E's were confirmed as destroyed.

Three claims, two seem hitting the ground. The bail out could have been a cowling or aircraft part but two were seen to hit the ground. 81Sqn were flying operations against 14/JG77 and 1./JG77. Could the date be a day late reporting?

regards

Mark

Re: Loss of 1./JG 77 on 18 September 1941
 

Thanks to all who replied this thread. Especially for the Finnish langage course :)