Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

I think there are errors in the lists of surrendered/flown aircraft to Norway.
(meaning I think "flown to Norway" connection to 230133 could be false, it might be typo/error in this number in the original source)
Many other F2+ coded Ju 188 D-2s are reported flown "west", and none confirmed of Erg.Fagr. aircraft flown up to Norway. Most sources I have seen say either Kassel or Braunschweig. Number 133 on rudder does not automatically connnect to W.Nr, because other (many) Line Numbers are known from Ju 188´s. This might be remains of such number, but I am open to suggestions.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Read you Ed

But surely the digits are much more likely to be connected to a WNr than a line number? I have no verification of the other (non seen) digits though.

Cheers
Stig

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Position of 133 on fin is not typical for that factory (230xxx), larger and elsewhere was norm. But yes, that position for 133 is known for that factory on forward fuselage,
BUT usually four digits (0xxx / 5xxx) followed by D or S or even S A3, or S U2

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Gentlemen,

http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1945/5MAI.html

The presence of Ju 188 D2 WNr. 230133 of 3.(F)/ 22 in Norway on 5 May 1945 with seven other aircraft of that unit, its absence from Norway on 10 May and its probable appearance at Braunschweig at the end of the war is consistent with that of other aircraft that participated in the Luftwaffe's Courland evacuation operation on 8 May 1945.

Best regards,

Jim Geens

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Karoband / Jim, exactly this is NOT consistent - what you refer to is circumstantial, in my view. The aircraft of 3.(F)/22 have been reported fly to Copenhagen/Kastrup, after flying to Courland. Reason was most likely range. They had re-fuelled at Gardermoen, and (like some planes of III/KG 26) flew with sceleton crew (no gunners!) and returned (unrefuelled?) to Denmark, after safe (?) travel over the Östsee.

There is yet to surface concrete info on Ju 188 #133 F2+SM and Ju 188 D-2 230133 of 3.(F)/22 be same plane. Code F2+SM is NOT code of 3.(F)/22, but belonged to 4./Erg.FAGr. (a school unit). And there is no other info if them flying into Norway having code F2+_M or them not having code 4N+_L

-Ed

I am familiar with this at SIG Norway. There are suspected errors in it.

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Hi Ed,

I agree. "Circumstantial" is a better word.

Jim

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

Gentlemen

While I agree with the circumstantial tag I also feel there was a lot of confusion during these last days of the war and various units probably flew whatever they could lay their hand on, and still some....

I don't believe we should look for persons having time to repaint aircraft to fit any particular unit at this stage and I equally don't think anyone gave a damn (if you pardon the expression), so going by the book Ed/Jim will be good in court but in reality?... well I don't know....you might be right...and then again you may not... :o

No offense to anyone, I am just the amateur trying to get the feel of what it would be like to be a looser in 1945...

Cheers
Stig

Re: JU 188 Bomber Side Code ID?
 

1.) http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/befagr.html

This is the strength report for 4./Erg.FAGr (listed as Erg.FAG or Erg.FAG. in some doctumets) listing amost others several (three) Ju 188 D-2 on strength until 12.44 - and one very rare "Ju 88 E". I do not recall seeing newer strength report for this unit after 12.44, but it may well be in Ultra somewhere. This unit recived several replacements in 1945 as follows (01 Jan to 11 Apr 45):

08 Jan 45 one Ju 88 D-1
11 Jan 45 one Ju 88 D-1
17 Jan 45 two Ju 188 F-1
21 Jan 45 one Ju 188 F-1
(No other found) RL 2 III 620

2.) http://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/aufkl/b3ag22.html

This is strength report for 3.(F)/22 - I had had Ju 188´s for long time, since 1943, and losses were not drastic. The Ju 188 D-2 230133 was likely produced in June 1944 (planes on either side are known in factory testing in June 1944), and four Ju 188 D-2 (new)replacements are known in 07.44 thru 09.44, and four after that. (Total eight) No (new)replacements found in 1945 (!?) - So I think plenty time paint correct codes. With little fuel for much flying I think there was ample downtime for recieving correct codes (!?)

Indeed, all known losses of unit 3.(F)/22 have 4N+_L code (one Ju 188 D-2 and several Ju 188 F-1). Three Ju 188 D-2 appear unaccounted (one OPS loss 08.44, one non-OPS loss 08.44, one OPS loss 11.44) and five flown to Norway (total eight - none directly issued, likely all recieved in via Luftflotten in the area). One more Ju 188 D-2 loss in 03.45 (4N+GL) and replacement issued, likely recieved via Luftflotten in area).
RL 2 III 619 + 620

Based (Ref: ww2.dk):
Jürgenfelde(?), 9.43 - 12.43 (Ju 188)
Riga-Spilve, 12.43 - 10.44
Powunden, 10.44 - 12.44
Zabeln, 12.44 - 3.45

And lastly correcting header of this thread: This (illustated) F2+SM was not (Level)Bomber, unless it was in fact an Ju 188 A-2. The 230133 of 2.(F)/22 was Ju 188 D-2 (Recce).

-Ed