Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Hi Guys,

I want to be sure that I understood correctly everything, so please correct me if I am wrong:

- it is from a JU188
- We don't know the A/C WNr.
- Because of the "hlr" marking, we know it was built by ATG (Algemeine Transport Anlage GmbH Maschinenfabrik Leipzig W32)

correct ?


Then, do you think there is a chance to :

- to identify the A/C WNr. ?
- to locate this panel on the A/C ?

Thanks for your help: as a French guy, I am not sure my English is as good as yours and I doubt I get every abbreviation :). Your efforts to clarify are very much appreciated.

GC

PS : I read 88 168, and not 88 188, do you agree with me ?

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

I read 88.188-05 and base my reply on that

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Clearly not a plate from an aircraft lost at sea is it? I gave example of fate of ATG Ju 88 A-4 088 5707 (!) so most readers here could see that it does not fit (does it ?) and undoudedly many will recoginse the word but thereafter (as separator in argument against interpretating it as W.Nr. 5707 (which you <Mike> insist I am stating as W.Nr. of part - which I am not) but I prefer hold all my arrogace all to myself - and do not mind - if others express their attitude in such a way. If its my arrogance to have the Ju 88 A-4 parts list at all at hand, and for study, and NOT finding "panel" what you are referreng to as "Ju 88" part. If its 88.168-05 then closest number I find is 88.166 that was lower half of main fuselage in Ju 88 D-1´s, but having dash -05 refers to smaller part, which it is plainly visible on the photos. So what has you <Mike> brought new up on this part? Furthermore, lots of 88.xxx numers were carried on to Ju 188 and Ju 388. All drawing sheets I have on Ju 188 have numbers beginning with either 88.xxx or 188.xxx. but many have more suffuxes too.

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Have found photos were I think this access panel was, right behind the cockpit - on top of fuselage - lying sideways - in front of antenna mast.
Handbook drawings show this but I am searching fo better drawings or photos. Colour of part matches top camouflage, so likely from Bomber/Recce.

In Ju 188 E series manual, this panel appears in front of Spant 9.
%3

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

more, seems shape and edges fit.

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/FirstL...S_Ju188_02.jpg

http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-co...8_wreckage.jpg

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Plate 5707 could have belonged to ATG made Ju 188 A-2 / D-2 fuselage (Line Number) 5707 but be in several ATG W.Nr. ranges (somewhere about 150505 or 230411 but not very exact) just speculatively deducted from available 57xx and 58xx series Line Numbers known from photos.

-Ed

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

I am no Ju88 or Ju188 specialist, in my experiences with the Bf109 early models, I have found that removable access panels, even in some cases the very small circular screwed on type, the Werk Number of the aircraft was either via a data plate or painted on to the removable panel and also stamped into the panel. As you can imagine when these aircraft were needing repair, quick identification of parts was essential, after being stripped down. You can just imagine a handful of aircraft being patched up in a hanger and an aircraft mechanic has his parts on a bench at the back of a hanger and another guy takes over his shift and there are multiple jobs being done at the same time. Things can easily get confusing. So it makes logical sense. In addition, in some cases panels from one aircraft didn't always easily fit on another. Bearing in mind these were hand made and yes to drawings of course, but again being hand made, there can be very clear differences. Just recently I was comparing a part to a drawing and there was a clear mistake to its dimensions by 7mm would you believe, not a couple of mm. After all we are all human - I think :-)

So to add, looking at what you have on the data plate, in my opinion it is very likely the werk nr. Unless someone can show this to be the suffix drawing number of some kind?

Hope this helps a little.

Best Regards

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Quite correct. Few people know however Ju 88 production had considerable effort in early years in making parts interchangeable. Even on assembly in the beginning the parts numbers (Serie Nr.) got mixed. Even the "so called fixed W.Nr.s" were changed, in order to deliver correct W.Nr. on time, and planes were almost never delivered in nummerical order. (New W.Nr.s replacing rejected airframes)

Abowe (#16) is assuming part was used in cronological order, but as this Line Number was made quite late in 1944, it rater unlikely might have been salvaged (recycled) and fitted to other plane. We have no idea over its actual useage., so assume it stayed with same airframe thrughout.

But what were the ATG Line Numbers. http://www.wwiiaircraftphotos.com/LCBW12/Ju188_2f-s.jpg
This here shows Ju 188 A-3(LT) Search Radar equipped Torpedo Bomber W.Nr. 190339 (Line Number 5488 on tail end of fuselage) code 1H+KS of III/KG 26 (from Norway) surrendered at Copenhagen Kastrup, after 8 May 1945. The ATG Line numbers were not continious, indicating to me some (first) might have been updated from normal A-4 airframes (which ATG was still producing at that time) but appear near continious after 5201 to just past 5812. Combined ATG and Siebel output be about half of Ju 188 production (JFM 601, ATG 655*) but many were lost in works.

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

Thanks for your precisions and information, guys.

I understand we face a JU188 part;

And do we know the fate of this aircraft ? (Wnr. 5707)

Cheers to all from Toulouse

GC

Re: A nice (JU88?) part to identify
 

We face Ju 188 (D-2), Line Number (NOT W.Nr. per se) 5707 - But you must also tell us where this comes from !