Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

...separate thread !

M

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

Possibly, but how answering my question?

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

*sigh*
If you insist.
On the one hand: scores and scores of extremely good books and articles written by the greatest airwar experts in mankind's history.
On the other hand: a person named Nick Beale.

Whom would you give your attention ?

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

OK, so you've tried awfully hard to construct a withering put-down but you still haven't answered my question. What do you believe to be the value of comparing totals of events which may or may not have taken place?

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

Excuse me? First I really thought that this is just a joke.
What is your problem with Nick's question? Do you really think that because some data was commonly used, copied and automatically repeated by many researchers in the past, using only one sided (German) information (namely the reported claims) without knowing anything about the verified losses of the other side, it makes their story true?

Please stop ridiculing yourself and be a little bit more realistic. Please, ask your 'world famous historians': based on what INFORMATION they published and repeated in the past eg. Hartmann's 352 'victories'? Please ask them to list the verified aircraft serial numbers and pilots of Hartmann's soviet victims! Your whole argument is pathetic and not worthy for a historical forum.

For me: in one hand there are black & white Allied and Soviet loss reports and war diaries -without missing any pages- (with specific AC serial numbers, pilot names, dates, units), while on the other hand there is Michael who wants to live in a wonderland and still believes in outdated fairy tales. Sorry, but here it is not too difficult to choose...

Gabor

PS: If Hartmann's and other's claims were all true, then Germany would have won WWII.

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

The war was won/lost on the earth not in the air ... even if Hartmann's and other's claims were all true ...

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

Correct. But you get the point.

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

Jumping briefly on this topic which I found quite boring (my 2 cents) but your comment, Knusel, is felt unrespectful toward a dedicated researcher and writer who takes time to answer your silly questions and shares - freely - his knowledge on the internet (we don't need to buy his books, just joking now)
What do you have written and published yet?

Sorry, but some forumer may be more humble and think 7th time before writting.

Bye

ClinA-78

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

Hi HGabor

I think what Michael is looking for are the claims of the individual. Whether or not the pilot is honest. Even an honest pilot will have thought to have destroyed an aircraft that crawls back to base. A fraudulent pilot might officially claim an aircraft that not only he didn't shoot-down, or attack, or even seen, but officially it's confirmed. No matter how bad it sounds, it's still official. Several Luftwaffe pilots submitted no claims for planes they shot-down for many reasons varying from didn't think they had to couldn't be bothered with the paper work.

Regards

Johannes

Re: German day fighter top aces by JG
 

Nick,
Thank you very much, much appreciated!
Gabor