Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

For what it's worth, I found the following quote in Monogram's Close-Up book on the Bf 109 K:
In more than one way it suggests K-6s were operational. I will contact the author and ask about his source.




Also, I came across this picture in a Polish book about Bodenplatte. According to the caption it shows a G-10 of I/JG 3. Now I don't know how they can tell that from the picture, but it does seem to have the enlarged air intake of the later 109s. The snow would suggest Dec '44/Jan '45 and the wooden tail on the 109 in the background supports this time frame. And, the reason for me posting it, it has wing gunpods.

http://skyraider.allaboutwarfare.com...G-10_I_JG3.jpg

Also... on the right wing just inside of the gunpod... could that be a wheel door?
It also appears to have an aerial behind the cockpit though...




I found the following 109 G/K operators after extensive digging on www.ww2.dk and checked their airbases compared to the Magdeburg/Leipzig area.

III/JG 1 - Stolp-Reitz - not near
I/JG 3 - Stettin-Altdamm - not near
II/JG 3 - Alperstedt - possible
III/JG 3 - Stettin-Altdamm - not near
I/JG 4 - Guben - not near
III/JG 4 - Drewitz - which one? there is a Drewitz very near Magdeburg
IV/JG 4 - Drewitz - which one? there is a Drewitz very near Magdeburg
II/JG 5 - Herdla - near
III/JG 5 - Gossen/Herdla - near
III/JG 6 - Sorau - not near
II/JG 11 - Strausberg - not near
I/JG 27 - Rheine - not near
II/JG 27 - Rheine-Hopsten - not near
III/JG 27 - Hesepe - not near
IV/JG 27 - Achmer - not near
I/JG 51 - Danzig-Langfuhr - not near
II/JG 51 - Veszprem/Raab - not near
III/JG 51 - Insterburg - not near
IV/JG 51 - Danzig-Langfuhr - not near
I/JG 52 - Breslau-Schöngarten - not near
II/JG 52 - Veszprem - not near
III/JG 52 - Weidenguth - ? (can't find)
I/JG 53 - Veszprem - not near
II/JG 53 - Malmsheim/Huchenfeld - not near
III/JG 53 - Kirrlach - not near
I/JG 300 - Borkheide - not near
III/JG 300 - Jüterbog-Waldlager - possible
IV/JG 300 - Reinsdorf (near Berlin) - not near
IV/JG 301 - Gardelegen - possible

I/NJG 11 - Echterdingen - not near
II/NJG 11 - Jüterbog-Waldlager - possible but not likely, although 5/NJG 11 was based at Köthen and thus near
III/NJG 11 - Bonn-Hangelar - not near


Given the dark colour of the 109 ("charcoal brown") it is perhaps possible that it was a machine of 5/NJG 11? Are any daytime losses known for this unit on 9 February 1945?

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

The combat in which the 355th FG, the 479th FG and the 2nd Scouting Force were involved on 9 February 1945 in the Magdeburg area was against JG 300 (I., II. and III. Gruppen) and JG 301 (at least its II. Gruppe).

While II./JG 300 and II./JG 301 were equipped with Fw 190s (including some Fw 190 D-9s for II./JG 301), I. and III./JG 300 operated various version of Bf 109. It appears however that on this date, most — if not all — Bf 109s lost by JG 300 were G-10 and G-10/R6 versions. Until now, we haven’t seen a single JG 300 Messerschmitt of late 1944 and 1945 equipped with underwing gun pods.

Richard Goyat

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

Many thanks Richard! Do you have any details about the Bf 109 G-10/R6 losses? The R6 Rüstsatz had the twin 20mm gunpods.

The attack was executed by a single Me 109 and seems to have been an isolated incident from any bigger battles. The 109 came from a cloudbank to the east or south-east of the Mustangs' flightpath (heading south). The pilot of the 109 was KIA. He tried to bail out but was possibly hit by .50 cal fire and never managed. The 109 went into a vertical dive and crashed into the ground.
The veteran also mentioned that the pilot seemed confused what to do and on the initial attack didn't keep enough deflection. It's likely the pilot was rather new (thus lower rank?).

[edit]
I just found this: http://www.jg300.de/data/1945.php
Do you have any additions to information mentioned there, especially with regards to the R6 versions and possible time (around noon) and pilot's faith (KIA)?
[/edit]

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

I just returned from a research trip to DC. There were several items located relating to Bf 109 subtype production. There are detailed breakdowns for subtypes through March 1945. No K-6s, however, Neubau G-6s were still coming off the line as late as February 1945. The last dated document from the GAF QM was April 11, 1945, indicating that Neubau subtypes included, G-10s, G-14s and K-4s through the end of April. Not too much happened after that. I am not certain which Monogram publication is being refered to on the Bf 109 K, but if it is the Close-Up, that was put together many years ago and a lot of very detailed late war production data has come to light since then. Also, it seems pretty clear the "K" series was designed at WNF, not Me, another indication that the Monogram book may be out of date regarding currently available source material.

Best Regards,

Artie BoB

ps. The material from this trip includes Me Monatsmeldung for much of 1943 and RLM Monatsmeldung (Thanks to Rabe Anton) for much of 1941. This means the Bf 109 production breakdown by subtype and factory for these periods is now in hand.
ab

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

Ronnie the G-10/R6 were the adverse weather flying 109s, both the G-10 or G-10/R6 could be equipped with Rüstsatz R VI.

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

Artie Bob, thanks for the heads-up. Yes it's the old Monogram Close-Up book. Of course it isn't up to date, but I was curious where the info about the K-6 came from. I have sent the author an e-mail to see where he found that information.


I see... That's a bit confusing that R"6" was used for two different things! :)

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

Ronnie,

Get the JaPo books on the K and G-10.

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

Neither do I - I wrote the "so called G16". But if there was some kind of G10 or G14 with gun-pods and different motor in the last days of the war, this is exactly what I mean.

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

The author of the Monogram Clopse-Up on the 109 K came back to me and confirmed that as far as his records go, indeed no K-6 reached the frontlines.


So the obvious question is... could one of the JG 300 Bf 109 G-10s have had gunpods fitted? If not, what unit did the aircraft come from that the 355th FG pilot shot down that day?


I did find a rather interesting shot of a Bf 109 G-10 in very dark camouflage:
http://www.bf-109.de/pics-bf109g/bf1...024-swfoto.jpg
The picture was taken in Bavaria and thus not directly relevant to the search, but still very interesting.
But again, no gunpods :(

Re: Late-war Bf 109 question
 

Bill Lyons was only 357FS pilot to shoot down a 109 on 9 February, 1945. Ludeke, who was flying with Lyons shot down an FW 190 in this engagement. This encounter was reported as near Brandenburg. He is still sharp as a tack at 80+. If you don't have his email address, PM me.

A flight of 2SF trailing the 355th FG bounced a gaggle of approx 50 109's near Magdeburg and shot down four. In this engagement, Bill Whalen became the Scout Force's only ace and the 2SF CO (Col John Brooks) shot down 2 and earned the DSC for the aggresive bounce.

Does anyone know which LW units were engaged?