Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum

Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php)

- Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/forumdisplay.php?f=8)

- - Anton Hackl (http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=49875)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knusel (Post 243852)

Hello Peter,

thanks for your assessment.
A different kind of primary source is Hackl's rudder
http://www.axiswarprize.com/anton-hackl.html
which reveals that he was transferred away from the Russian front after 118 kills.

Have a nice weekend,

Michael

Interesting - older lists give his 118th as a Spitfire on 7th January 1943 at 1145am. 7km SW of Sirte airfield @ 6-7000m, which corresponds to 92 sqn. ER279 of F/S T R Broomhall MIA and serial unknown Sgt. H Patterson (baled out). That would be a slight overclaim as Burkhardt and Reinert also claimed ( = 3 claims, but only two losses...)

I can confirm he flew both, BF109 to intercept fighters, Fw190 for bombers.

Bernd Barbas knew him quite well, and this is what he told Bernd. Apparently he should only have had one aircraft, but would say his own was faulty, so would have to use the other.......seemed to work for him.

Regards

Johannes

Johannes,
At this stage the only period we have information on this practice is in the first half of 1944.
Are you able to confirm that the practice continued after that - ie after he left JG11 in mid-1944?
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMoz99 (Post 243908)

That's true, Peter...
But here's another spanner in the works and hopefully a worthy and useful one.

On 23 December, 1944, Hackl claimed (as CO II./JG 26):

1) A P-51. Caldwell tell us that this was a Mustang from 364th FG which forcelanded on allied side of the lines. Please note, I cannot find an entry in losses of the 8th & 9th Air Forces that actually backs that up.

2) A Lancaster from 405 sqn, RCAF or 582 sqn. (582 sqn lost 5 Lancasters and the 6th was from 405 sqn)

3) A Mosquito: ML998/HS-B of 109 sqn (Caldwell says 105 sqn). F/O E C Carpenter RCAF and F/O W T Lambeth DFM both KIA

In return,
5 Staffel lost Lt. Helmut Wirth WIA in Fw190D-9 W.Nr. 210614

8 Staffel lost Fw. Werner Frass in Fw190D-9 W.Nr. 210168

...So there's at least 2, very possibly 3, legitimate victories that can reasonably be said to have been achieved by Hackl in the Dora 9

Nick, if the claims are correct, then they were almost certainly in a D. JG26 converted to D's in Nov 1944, and their remaining A's were either lost in accidents or transferred out, probably early in December.

Getting back to Michael's question about JG300, Hackl was only credited with 1 kill with this unit - in Feb 1945.

There are only 5 JG300 kills recorded in Feb 1945 - the one to Hackl as a Stab pilot and 4 listing the pilot as unknown and simply stating the unit as JG300.

The uncertainty regarding the a/c Hackl was flying when he made that claim lies in online sources (no doubt one copied the other) stating that in the period Dec-Apr 1945, Stab JG300 had FW190A and Bf109G. The G's they had in Oct and Nov were G-14's. BUT the movement and on-hand info only lists FW190A in Dec 1944. Unfortunately, there is no more detailed info after that, so if Stab JG300 did indeed get more Bf109G's in 1945, we have no idea when or how many. Note Hackl was GeK from 30 Jan to 20 Feb only.

Lexikon der Wehrmacht states I and III Gruppen had Bf109G, Stab and II FW190A, but doesn't say if this was for the whole of its existence, at inception, or whenever.

That does not rule out the possibility that he simply commandeered a Bf109G from one of the Gruppen whenever he felt like it.

Does anyone have the 2 JG300 volumes by Lorant and Goyat? Maybe the answer is there.

Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMoz99 (Post 243932)

I have the Lorant and Goyat volumes - he gets the very briefest of mentions in them and there's definitely nothing to answer the original question in that sense.
I do definitely agree with your assertion that his claims with JG 26 that I listed were most likely made in a Dora. After all, if an Unteroffizier and a Feldwebel were KIA that day in Doras, then surely the Kommandeur would hardly be flying an older type Anton (that's my logic and I take it you agree). If you would like to view my copies of Lorant and Goyat, send me a PM

If it's any help, the equipment of Stab JG 300 on 7 November 1945 was a mixture of Fw 190 A-8 and Bf 109 G-14/AS: http://www.ghostbombers.com/markings/IJK071144.html

Hi Nick B. I guess you mean 1944.
Movement info suggests one only Bf109G-14 which was sent for overhaul sometime during November - by your info we now know it was after 7 Nov.
I guess we don't know if it came back after December?
Peter

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMoz99 (Post 243940)

Hi Nick B. I guess you mean 1944.
Peter

I do, I'm pretty sure that Stab JG 300 no longer had any Bf 109 G-14/AS in November 1945!

Good morning,

this website indicates that Peter Jenne of Stab/JG300 was lost in a Bf109G on 2Mar1945.
http://www.jg300.de/loss1945-1.html

Cheers,

Michael