Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Thanks for the comment, Laurent. It’s a convincing argument in favor of the fact that the long-nosed Fw-190 could appear in the reports before their real appearance on east front.

I continue to dig the topic and collected 1st Air Army VVS OOB on starting of the Invasion into East Prussia. Tried to put it in this thread, but probably did not pass the moderation. Obviously this information is more for the branch of the Allied and Soviet Air Forces. Do you think it makes sense to create one more topic on the East Prussian operation in that branch? Or, maybe this information is not very interesting?

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Good day, everyone!
I have coulpe of questions about docs, cause of my lack of German.
In attached doc, “Eingesetze Shlachtflufzeuge 76“ means that 76 sorties were made by ground-attack planes or 76 ground-attack planes were used? I think that first suggestion is correct, but I want be sure.
And second question is what stabsstaffel on Fw 190 could be meant (between III./ JG 51 and III./ JG 52). JG 52’s stakas were flying Bf 109 I believ…

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

ZhekaB -

44 Fw 190 3 Einsätze
[44 Fw 190s dispatched on a total of 3 operations or missions.]

Eingesetze Schlachtflugze 76
(A total of 76 ground-attack aircraft sorties were dispatched.]

If I understand your question correctly, there were no Fw 190s in either JG 51 or JG 52 in October 1944. They were equipped with the Bf 109 G-6, although Geschwaderstab JG 52 also had a couple of Bf 109 G-14s. This is according to the Luftwaffe document:
Flugzeugbestand und Bewegungsmeldungen, 3.42 - 12.44.

L.

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Thank you Larry, the first question is clear.
The second question was about Stabsstaffel on Fw 190 (mentioned in document) which made 24 sorties on 8 missions to cover sea district of Memel. So it is suposed that they were from JG stabstaffel? From which one it could be? I dont know any on Fw 190 in that region that period of time. Could they be from SG? Do schlachtgrupp execute cover or escort missions?

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Stabstaffel JG51 used the FW190

https://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg51.html

Do not confused with Stab/JG51

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

:red: :red:

Sorry! I did not scroll down far enough.

https://www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/bstjg51.html

L.

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

So did I :)))
Thank you kalender

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Updating information of German OOB on 16-27 october 1944 in East Prussian Air Battle:
Fighters:

1. Stab/JG52 (21.10. - Jurgenfelde) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14

2. I./JG52 (14.10. - Ebenrode or Lobellen?) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14
3. III./JG52 (16.10. - Jurgenfelde or Trahkennen?) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14
4. Stab/JG 51 (01.10.? - ?) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-14
5. Stabsstafel/JG51 (01.10.? - ?) - Fw 190A-8

6. I./JG51 (01.10.? - Lobellen) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14
7. III./JG51 (01.10.? - Huttenfelde) - Bf 109G-6, Bf 109G-6/U4, Bf 109G-14


Schlachtflugzuege:
1. II./SG1 (16.10. - Gerdoen) - Fw 190F-8

2. Stab/SG4 (01.10. - Insterburg) - Fw 190F-8
3. I./SG4 (15.10.? - Insterburg) - Fw 190A/F/G
4. II./SG4 (08.10.? - Huttenfelde) - Fw 190F-8
5. III./SG4 (18.10.? - Insterburg) - Fw 190F-8
6. II./SG77 (06.10. - Gerdoen) (? two staffels?) - Fw 190F-8
7. 10.(Pz)./SG1 (08.10.? - Huttenfelde) - Ju 87D-5, Ju 87G-2

8. 10.(Pz)./SG3 (03.10.? - Huttenfelde)- Ju 87D-5, Ju 87G-2
9. Stab IV./SG9 (??.10. - Jurgenfelde) - Hs 129 B-2

10. 13./SG9 (??.10. -Jurgenfelde) - Hs 129 B-2


Recon:
1. 2./NAGr8 (?? - Bielce) - Bf 109G-8
2. 2./NAGr4 (?? - Lyck) - Bf 109G-8
3. 2./NAgr5 (?? - Lyck) - Bf 109G-8


Bombers:
1. 14.(Eis)./KG3 (Graudenz) - Ju 88C - looks like hadn't flew in October

2. 14.(Eis)./KG55 (Gutenfeld) - He 111H-16 - looks like hadn't flew in October

Also there is some possibility of presence of next verbandts:

1. Stab/SG3 (possible)

2. I.,II.,III./SG3 (there is low possibility, but they moved to East Prussia in the end of October)


Number of a\c during the battle is very difficult to identify, just on the beginning of the month.

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Happy New Year everyone,

I am going to open a post on the subject allies where I will put all the information that can be found in the Russian archives concerning air combat. I hope that the Luftwaffe specialists will find theirs there.

Re: Air battle over East Prussia in October 1944
 

Hello ZhekaB,

to your post #12:
with regard to ….In attached doc, "Eingesetze Shlachtflufzeuge 76"….. the question arises, what is the exact wording?
"Eingesetzte Schlachtflugzeuge 76" (means 76 ground-attack aircraft were dispatched, not 76 sorties) or
"Einsätze Schlachtflugzeuge 76" (means there were 76 sorties of ground-attack aircraft).

Regards
Leo