Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

"Intruders over Britain" shows no sorties or claims by German intruders on that evening.

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

Hi George!

I was thinking that the book I had in mind does not contain any useful info for the night in question;
but IIRC it should feature info about the intruder role of the ME-410 equipped KG-51 Gruppe.

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

I beleive there was an intruder attack over the U.K on the 15/16th June to the area 'Raum Cambridge'. This appeares to be borne out by Home Office reports which say one enemy aircraft was over East Anglia on the 14/15th and the following night ten aircraft flew overland during the attacks by Flying Bombs. The Home Office reports make no mention of enemy aircraft over the U.K. on the 16/17th. Either KG 51 were operating over the continent agaist RAF bombers ( like SKG 10 did over France in May ) or a proposed intruder attack did not get as far as the U.K but resulted in claims.

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

I concur with Brian-they were used in the n/f role (without radar) but most if not all of their kills were whilst intruding over airfields. The time would rule out US bombers and the logbook I have from a crewman shows no missions that night

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

Many thanks to all for their responses.

I assume that there were no RAF night fighter or AAA claims of aircraft destroyed over England on the night of 16-17 June 1944.

The location of the second of the two claims by KG 51 is interesting in that any aircraft shot down in that location would have likely come down on land or in coastal waters under radar surveillance. Of course, as has been mentioned, the accuracy of this position is likely to be questionable. I suspect that looking out for Mosquitos would have had priority.

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

A 219 Squadron Mosquito claimed an Me 410 near Dungeness on 16/17 June. Apparently there were no other claims. I've no info on the crew or on whether there were any corresponding LW losses.

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

II/KG 51, the intruder unit, lost nothing 16-17 June 44

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

Thanks Chris.

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

Interesting. One of the two German claims may relate to this, from a list of raids on 8th USAAF installations in the UK:

"RATTLESDEN (HB) 0212 hrs 15 June 1944 1 twin-engined E/A strafed B-17 approaching to land, and dropped bombs on airbase. 4 x 250 kg (sic) bombs in open field, 2 x 250 kg bombs near Red Cross Club which was damaged to a slighter degree. 2 x containers of anti-personnel bombs disposed of by RAF unit. Altitude: 300 to 800 ft. Weather: Fairly clear - few scattered clouds.
Efficiency of defensive plans: Satisfactory. It is thought intruders followed RAF inland. Further, it is thought intruder picked up PFF in traffic pattern and circled until beginning of landing."

This could well refer to 15-16 June 1944 but unlikely to have been 16-17 ?
The HE bombs would probably have been 50 kg size which with two containers of SD2 would have been a typical II/KG.51 Me 410 bomb-load on these intruder attacks.
Chris Goss might also be interested to know that it was common practice for 8th USAAF PFF units to position aircraft to several airfields prior to the day's mission, so USAAF bombers airborne in the night skies over Britain were not that uncommon. Also, the USAAF carried out a considerable number of night-flying practice missions. In addition, there were also a few nocturnal USAAF units including the Night Leaflet Squadron and the 801st "Carpetbaggers". In short, German intruders finding American bombers at night was no big surprise.

What I did find surprising was that ALL the II/KG.51 claims for the infamous night of 22 April 1944, when nine USAAF B-24s were shot down by a small number of intruders returning from the mission to HAmm, were for RAF HALIFAXES !!!

Hope this helps.
Regards,

BC

Re: 16-17/6/44 night fighters over England
 

It's this claiming that made me think these KG 51 a/c hadn't been directed to intercept the B-24s but had only been out to do a bit of dirt around England and happened upon the returning B-24s by accident.