Re: RAF Losses above Belgium betw.May 10 and May 28,1940.
 

Hello all,

ORB 17 Sqdn states that on 11 May 40 sqdn received orders to patrol the Hague and Rotterdam. At 1500 hours 12 aircraft took off. S/L Tomlinson, F/Lt Donne, P/O Slee, P/O Hulton-Harrop and Sgt Luck failed to return. - later it was reported that S/L Tomlinson was safe. He had force landed this aircraft (badly shot) at Hengene aerodrome in Belgium. He had sustained a slight injury in the action. In the air combats 17 Sqdn claimed: 3 Me 109's and 2 He 126's. Alas I do not have any futher details on 17 sqdn relating May 40.

Best wishes
Rob

Re: RAF Losses above Belgium betw.May 10 and May 28,1940.
 

Hi,

17 N2407 Hulton-Harrop "YB-N" POW
17 N2403 F/Lt.M.S.Donne near Ypres KIA
17 P2758 Sgt. J.A.A.Luck POW
17 N2547 S/Ldr G.C.Tomlinson safe/evaded

Others this day 11th May
1 L1685 F/O P.H.M.Richey safe
17 N2405 P/O G.W. Slee "YB-Y" KIA
73 P2811 P/O A. McFadden (a/c hidden in shed) f/l at Poilcourt safe
73 P2813 S/Ldr J.W.C/More a/c "H" damaged safe.
BUT Lost on the 14th with P/O V.D.M.Roe KIA Namur
79 L2068 F/L R. Edwards Baled injured
79 L2049 P/O L. Appleton f/l LeTouquet safe
85 N2388 F/L R.H.A.Lee "VY-R" safe
85 P2701 S/D Belgium, but returned. Lost 18th with F/O D.H.Allen KIA.
85 L1979 P/O. J.A.Hemmingway "VY-X" or "Y" safe
87 ????? Sgt. G.L. Nowell safe
607 P2573 P/O P.Dixon "AF-A" destroyed on ground safe
607 P2571 P/O T.D.Jay "AF-G" wounded
607 P2574 F/O R.F.Weatherill f/ld "AF-F" safe. But this was 10th.
Others lost were in a 271 Sqn Bombay L5183 Béthenville
F/O. A.C.J.Percy KIA
Sgt. W.H.Whitfield KIA
Sgt. H.J.Barnwell KIA
P/O. B.L.Duckenfield injured
P/O B.J.R.Brady injured
Sgt.D.B.Crabtree injured
Sgt.H.C.Adams injured

Alex

Re: RAF Losses above Belgium betw.May 10 and May 28,1940.
 

Hi,
re claims
From Victory Claims of WW2 vol 1 by J. Foreman
17 Sqn Hurr FC
S/L. G.C.Tomlinson Bf109 destroyed N.Rotterdam 17.00
Sgt. A. F. Pavey Bf109 destroyed N.Rotterdam 17.00
F/O. R.V.Meredith Bf109 destroyed 15m S. The Hague 17.00
F/O R.C.Whittaker Bf109 unconfirmed N.Rotterdam 17.00
F/O. J.Jeffries Hs126 destroyed Delft-Hague 17.00
Sgt. N.R.Wynn Hs126 destroyed Delft-Hague 17.00
F/L. W.A.Toyne Bf109 unconfirmed Delft-Hague 17.00

Alex

Re: RAF Losses above Belgium betw.May 10 and May 28,1940.
 

Hello Rob,

What have you of the ORB for the 13th May ?
That is when N2454 of 17 Sqn is reported as lost.Along with N3403,N2405 and N2407 .
According to FCL vol 1.
N2405 and 7 seen already to have been lost on the 11th while N3403 had a longer life and ended up as a Defiant ??
I think it is a missprint and meant to have been N2403 of F/L Donne lost on the 11th.
Alex

Re: RAF Losses above Belgium betw.May 10 and May 28,1940.
 

Hello Alex,

Have been working on a book relating the air combats between the German dayfighters and RAF from May 40 till Aug 42 over Holland. Below you will find the engagement between 17 Sqdn and Luftwaffe over Holland on 11 May 40:

----------------------------------------------------
The following day (11 May) twelve Hurricanes of the same unit took off for a patrol between Delft and The Hague.(1) Near Rotterdam the Hurricanes met the Me 109's of Jagdgeschwader 27 and 51. In the dogfights 17 Squadron claimed two Me 109's destroyed, two Me 109's probably destroyed and two Hs 126's destroyed. (2)


Number 17 Squadron lost four aircraft near Dordrecht as well as commanding officer Squadron Leader G.C. Tomlinson, who made a successfull crash landing near Knokke. Two British pilots lost their lives, one returned to his unit and two were made POW. The German fighter pilots who claimed near Rotterdam were:


Pilot: Unit: Claim:
Oberleutnant Heinrich Krafft 3./JG 51 2 Hurricanes (3)
Leutnant Ernst Terry Stab I./JG 51 2 Hurricanes
Unteroffizier Fritz Schreiter 3./JG 51 1 Hurricane
Oberleutnant Hans- Christian Schäger 5./JG 27 1 Hurricane (4)


One of the German casualties was Unteroffizier Fritz Schreiter of the 3./JG 51. He crashed near Waalhaven. Schreiter was wounded and could return to his unit. (5) The second casualty was the 24 years old Unteroffizier Franz Schild of the same unit. He was shot down in air combat at 2 kilometres west of Zwijndrecht. (6) Besides the Luftwaffe also lost two He 126 in Nieuwe Tonge and Piershil.


(1) NA: AIR 27/234 Operational Record Book 17 Squadron; AIR 22/63 Daily secret bulletin of air operations no. 172 - 11 May 1940; AIR 25/219 Operational Record Book No. 12 Group
(2) NA: AIR 25/219 Operational Record Book No. 12 Group. According to AIR 27/234 Operational Record Book 17 Squadron: “Three Me 109 casualties are conclusively claimed and two Henschel 126 are also conclusively claimed as casualties.” In a brief history of No. 17 Squadron”:”...the squadron destroyed 3 Me 109s and 2 He 126s, but 5 pilots (including S/Ldr Tomlinson, the C.O.) failed to return.” ; AIR 16/960 Claims and Casualties Fighter Command: “2 Hs.126, 1 Me.109 cert; 4 Me.109 inconclusive.”
(3) Prien c.s., Teil 3, 274.
(4) Prien en Rodeike (II./JG 27), 26-27; Ring en Girbig, 24; Prien c.s., Teil 3, 258. Oberleutnant Schäfer was Staffelkapitän of 5./JG 27.
(5) Prien c.s., Teil 3, 274.
(6) Hans Onderwater, En nooit was het stil, 74-76; Prien c.s., Teil 3, 274.

-------------------------------------------

ORB 17 Sqdn states:

12 May 40:
Little activity today. B flight up a section on an operational call, but no enemy aircraft sighted. After yesterdays rather hard first experinece the piltos are feeling a trifle sober. F/Lt Toyne is temporarily running the Squadron. The most immediate demand is for more aircraft.

13 May 40:
Little activity today. S/Lt Tomlinson is reported safe. etc.

Alas I do not have the details on the pilots and aircraft of 17 Sqdn.

Best wishes
Rob

Re: RAF Losses above Belgium betw.May 10 and May 28,1940.
 

All,

The Hurricanes that came down on May 11 were (see e.g. 12 Days in May)

N2547 Hingene Sqn Ldr Tomlinson, returned to UK May 13
N2403 (Numansdorp) Flt Lt Michael Donne, crashed, KIA
P2758 (Dordrecht) Sgt John Luck, baled out, PoW
N2405/Y (Gravedeel) Plt Off George Slee, crashed, KIA
N2407/N (S Dordrecht) Plt Off Cyril Hulton-Harrop, baled out, PoW

I think it is pretty clear now that the presumed claims for 17 Sqn losses on May 13 are all related to the what happened on May 11:
N3403 is a typo for N2403 as already suggested by Alex
N2405 and N2407 are confirmed May 11
N2454 can only be a (serious) mix-up with the N2547 of Tomlinson.
In other words: no 17 Sqn Hurricane losses on May 13 until proven differently.

Thanks to all for your inputs.

By the way; the crew of the Hs126 that crashed at Piershil was Fw Lindner (pilot) and Lt Franke (obs), both killed in the crash.
On the 2nd Henschel I only have that the crew baled out safely over german occupied territory around Waalhaven, but that would exclude Oude Tonge.

Pieter