Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Hi Jean,


Where I was coming from on the request for FW- serials can be seen here:


http://www.airhistory.org.uk/gy/reg_F-24.html


As you'll note there are lots of gaps in this FW- series towards the bottom of the page.Unless I am fortunate enough to get a response here on TOCH where a reader is directly able to identify F-AROR, I was thinking of working my way through the complete FW-prototypes list if one exists.I've worked my way through the ones on the link I've provided and no luck,but the fact that Aviana 10 was initially FW-07 before becoming F-AROQ leads me to believe that a more complete list of these FW- serials might help in identifying F-AROR.My thinking is perhaps excessively linear,but might a machine originally regitered somewhere between FW-08 & FW-46 be the machine I'm looking for.


While I very much appreciate your offer to check your local library next week and a result would be great I really would feel bad putting you through too much work.So if the publication has a list of the FW- serials in excess of that shown on the site I've linked to, that would probably be all I'd need and I could then search the web for the types listed and see if one fits.Obviously if an accurate entry exists for F-AROR,that would be quicker and better!


I agree that the machine would appear to have belonged to a state run agency.Were the CT- serialled machines reregistered at any stage before the war with french civil registrations or did they exist right through to 1939-40?



Best Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

A better picture found on ebay.

https://www.heberger-image.fr/images...-Escoublac.jpg

It's a SCA CAPRN.10, but I did not manage to find informations about this plane.

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Morane-Saulnier 138 156 F-AROR 6587
Morane-Saulnier 138 F-AROS 6588


Source: http://www.airhistory.org.uk/gy/Historic%20F-.txt

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Hello Stéphane,


Outstanding! What a superb photo.Thank you very much. Thanks too on behalf of Jean. He can now avoid the trip to the library.


So now that its known that the aircraft is the SCA CAPRN.10 it now remains to discover the machine's operator prior to capture by the German armed forces. Dare one hope?



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Well, the plane is totally unknown to me, and the manufacturer (SCA) belongs to the very obscure ones ! Some digging is under way, and also a call to help on the french Aeroforums


Regards



Jean

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

I have AVIANA 10 c/n01 F-AROQ ex FW-007...Same plane ?

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Hello,


Apparently not. There is a newspaper photo here of the Aviana 10:


https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/thr...rplanes.31308/


It would be interesting to see a photo of the machine marked as F-AROQ at the time of seizure by the German armed forces.


Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Hello

Here is the story of the plane, thanks to the members of the French Aeroforums and some personal research.

The aircraft was designed by a bunch of enthusiasts of the "Centre d'Aviation Populaire de la Région Nazairienne (Saint-Nazaire)" (therefore the CAPRN), as a Salmson 9 cylinders engineered 2 seater for beginners training. The State approved the design, and paid the drawings.

But the plane had to be manufactured, and, for political reasons, locally. An adhoc company, with the adequate structure, was created, as subsidiary of the obscure "Société Coopérative Aéronautique" (Paris) (therefore the SCA with no relation with the former SCA - the Société Commerciale Aéronautique). A shop was easily found in some disused part of the naval yard, and a engineer of the nearby SNCASO plant was put as boss.

After manufacturing, the plane was tested in the full scale wind tunnel (the results are preserved), but the aircraft remainded a single prototyp.

It can be reasonably assumed that the plane flew only locally, for beginners training, at the La Baule Escoublac airfield, a few miles from Saint-Nazaire, who the photography was taken, under the wing of a Navy LeO 258 converted as land plane.

It seems also that the F-AROR registration could be belonging to registrations allocated to the French State, which leads probably to a dead end...

Regards

Jean

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Hello Jean,


Thanks for posting the question on aeroforums and also for your own investigations. Very helpful.


I have a couple of questions due to my lack of familiarity with french civil aviation:


1.What is the register Véritas referred to by Franck Roumy?


2. With regard to your comments about the use of the machine for initial training.Does this mean you are inclined to believe that the machine was used by the military as a trainer,based on Lucien's info on the Leo 258 or do you rather believe that it was civilian operated.? I guess the tricolore might point to military?


Best Regards,


Clint



Regards,


Clint

Re: Photo Captured French Aircraft ID ?
 

Hello Clint

I will try to explain in few words. In France, everybody knows the "Registre Veritas" but when it comes to his precise definition it's another story !

the "Bureau Veritas" (a private company), like the former british Air Registration Board, maintains a list of all the aircraft in airworthy state, according to his inspections, done under delegation of the civilian aviation authorities. This list is the "Registre Veritas", and an aircraft not present on the list cannot, for example, be insured. However, since the French State, for his own planes, certifies his planes by himself, they are not present on the "Registre Veritas".

Starting in 1939, almost all civilian flying schools were "impressed" or "militarized" (usually by renaming and putting a senior NCO in charge, the instructors and mechanics remaining civilians). So we can assume that this plane was used for the initial traning of future military pilots.

Regards

Jean