Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

Michel,

If you can tell more what you are looking for specifically, we might be able to help you....

John

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

hello,

26-27/12/1944 Ju88G6 12./NJG2 wk 620870 "4R+HW"
Chaumont near Florennes

sorry i only have one name: HJ. Wagener +.

otherwise 6 paratroopers are picked up in Molhain by the MPs that night.

* The NJG6 takes off 9 ju88 and Me110 Ju88 "2Z + FP" shot down by German anti-aircraft fire, Oblt Peter Spoden and his crew slightly injured.

(Book "La guerre aérienne au dessus du département des Ardennes volume 3 de "Francoise et Pierre Roger") juin44-May45

@+
Joël

HJ.Wagener, tué

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

Hello Joël,

GQM loss return 24 Jan 1945 item 50:
27.12.44 IV./NJG 2 Ju 88 G-6 620870 4R+HW
F Ofhr Wagener, Hans vermisst
B Ofhr Rückert, Christoph vermisst
Bf Uffz Kraus, Hans vermisst
Bs Uffz Balser, Paul vermisst.

GQM loss return 3 Jan 1945 item 91:
27.12.44 II./NJG 6 Ju 88 G-6 621371 2Z+FP
F Lt Spoden, Peter vermisst
Bf Uffz Koy, Wilhelm vermisst
Bm Uffz Iwert, Bernhard vermisst
Bs Uffz Pelzer, Friedrich vermisst.

Regards
Leo

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

Hello Joël ,

I have this :

27/12/1944
Chaumont
Ju-88 G-6
Nachtslachtsortie
WNr-620870
12 ./NJG 2
4R+HW
Ofhr Wagener Hans-Joachim ( MIA ) pilot 19/03/1920 Waltemeinburg/Zerbst Uffz Balzer Paul ( MIA ) schutter 28/05/1922 Oppeln
Uffz Kraus Hans ( MIA ) radio 02/10/1922 Bonn
Ob Fhr Rückert Christphe ( MIA ) waarnemer 12/07/1922 Ipsheim

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

Here is the list of NJG 2 (this time) losses on 26-27 December 1944 from Balss 1st book (Personal verluste):
26./27.12.1944
7./NJG 2
unbekannt
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-1 Werknr.: 620141 4R + GR
Uffz. Gustav Bögeholz vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Bernhard Bolle vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Arnold Jansen vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Friedrich Hennig vermißt (gefallen)
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz nicht zurückgekehrt. Absturz nach Flaktreffer.

26./27.12.1944
7./NJG 2
unbekannt
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620136 4R + GR
Uffz. Erwin Bolduan vermißt (gefallen)
Gefr. Herbert Fascher vermißt (gefallen)
Ogefr. Horst Balzer vermißt (gefallen)
Gefr. Alfred Maser vermißt (gefallen)
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz nicht zurückgekehrt. Absturz nach Flaktreffer

26./27.12.1944
7./NJG 2
unbekannt
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620545 4R + IR
Lt. Günter Dietlen vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Philipp Buchner vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Adolf Schneider vermißt (gefallen)
Fw. Walter Stedtler vermißt (gefallen)
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz nicht zurückgekehrt. Absturz nach Flaktreffer

26./27.12.1944
9./NJG 2
unbekannt
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620155 4R + CT
Uffz. Heinz Koch vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Rudolf Sroweleit vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Heinz Josten vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Hans Richter vermißt (gefallen)
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz im Raum St. Omer nicht zurückgekehrt. Absturz nach Flaktreffer

26./27.12.1944
9./NJG 2
unbekannt
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620180 4R + ET
Uffz. Edmund Florian vermißt (gefallen)
Ogefr. Werner Neuenhaus vermißt (gefallen)
Fw. Gerhard Reppe vermißt (gefallen)
Uffz. Walter Kläser vermißt (gefallen)
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz nicht zurückgekehrt. Absturz nach Flaktreffer

26./27.12.1944 23.36 Uhr
10./NJG 2
Recklinghausen bei Schloß Forneburg
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620658 4R + FU
Lt. Franz Reich gefallen
Uffz. Alfons Hentrich gefallen
Uffz. Wilhelm Steuber gefallen
Uffz. Heinz Ruchhöft gefallen
Absturz, durch Aufschlagbrand total zerstört, Ursache nicht feststellbar.

26./27.12.1944
10./NJG 2
Westfront
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620448 4R + NU
Lt. Hans Oppl vermißt
Uffz. Walter Klamm vermißt
Uffz. Franz Glaser vermißt
Fw. Heinz Ende vermißt
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz nicht zurückgekehrt.

26./27.12.1944
12./NJG 2
Raum Brüssel (Belgien)
Feindflug: ja
Ju 88 G-6 Werknr.: 620670 4R + LW
Fw. Alfred Oswald vermißt
Ogefr. Anton Stocker vermißt
Fw. Erich Zdunnek vermißt
Fw. Kurt Petsch vermißt
Vom Nachtschlachteinsatz nicht zurückgekehrt.

The three entries given by Rottler are in his second book (Material Verluste) and are corrections of above entries:
1) For 620180, the crashplace is changed from unbekannt to Verviers (Belgium). The four crew were listed as vermißt (gefallen). Actually only the first two, Florian and Neuenhaus were killed, the other two, Reppe and Kaiser, became POW. Another addition for this loss is that it was shot down by a P-61 of 422nd NFS.
2) For 620448, the crashplace is changed from Westfront to Grandrieu (Belgium). The four crew were listed as missing, this is changed as killed.
3) For 620470, the crashplace is changed from "Raum Brüssel (Belgien)" to "bei Namur (Belgien)". Fw Zdunnek, listed as missing above, is shown as killed (gefallen), the other three crew are still missing.

The other five entries in the first book are not repeated in the second, probably because Mr Balss had no correction/additions to do to these entries.

Only with the above losses it was still a bad night for III./NJG 2 and IV./NJG 2, both suffering in one night half of the month losses (respectively 5 and 3 losses, month losses being 10 and 5 (source:https://www.ww2.dk/air/njagd/njg2.htm).

Given the lack of complete loss lists for 1944, it is still possible that NJG 2 had more losses during this night without human casualties. Total losses listed by Balss for December 1944 are 5 for IV./NJG 2 but only 7 for III./NJG 2, so three losses are missing. Al lknown losses are combat related, while the Flugzeugbestand shows 8 losses due to enemy and two without enemy action, so we are missing 1 of the former and both of the later category.

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

Sorry I doubt about that. So:

What is the clue to link that crew with Chaumont?
Is it Chaumont in Belgium or France?
Even if 'this' Chaumont is just West of the A-78 airfield (thus nearby Florennes), it is not the crashplace.

ClinA-78

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

A terrible night for NJG 2.
The top two losses (7./NJG 2), 620141 and 620136, are both listed as 4R + GR, presumably a typo by the author.

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

In the GQM loss returns from 4 Jan 1945 are listed WNr. 620141 4R+GR and WNr. 620136 4R+FR.

Leo

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

So have we all answered Michel's question???

Re: Ju 88G-6 NJG 2 December 26, 1944
 

Hi Clint,

ADI(K) Report No. 61/1945 and AIK(3) Casualty List No. 434(B) give the location as "Chaumont (Marne)", but this is no more than the location where Bordfunker or Beobachter Ohnr. Rückert was captured.

Interestingly, Rückert identified himself as the pilot of the Ju88 (and Allied Interrogators believed him). Pilot Wagener isn't mentioned in the ADI(K) Report, while Rückert gave false names for the remainder of the crew (Bordfunker Uffz. Hans Kraus is listed as "Uffz. Fritz Kniepen" and Bordschütze Uffz. Paul Balzer is listed as "Uffz. Hans Paul").

This raises the question (to which I don't immediately have the answer) of where the Ju88 actually crashed and were the three remaining crew deceased?

Someone may have on hand a relevant USAAF P-61 crew claim for a Ju88/Ju188 destroyed on 27 December 1944 on or about 21:30 pm. which would relate to Wagener's Ju88.

Cheers

Rod

PS - I temper this reply because it doesn't relate to or answer Michel's original question...