Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Yes, victories in Spain were on behalf of another airforce of another country, so can not be shown in the own nation abschussbalken.
Regards

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

"Neither Hackl, Menge nor Struckmann were in Spain with the Tophatters of 2./J88, so falling from listing...Furthermore, according to Osprey Aircraft of the Aces-Bf109D/E aces 1939-41 book, Robert Menge claimed four Blenheims IV's during the disastrous Aalborg raid on 13 Aug. aboard the 'Black 1' "

While the tophat is indeed associated with Spanish service, I think, in this case, 5./JG 77 also used it as a Staffelbadge.

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Yes this is staffelbadge.
It started to disappear in August 1940 - perhaps it was connected with changing of Staffelkapitaen.

Robert

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Probably not Menge. His 4. and 5. victory was on the same day
Ofw Anton Hackl is more likely, his 4. was on 17.6.1940

Best
Olve Dybvig

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

So based on the following:

-WWII vics (not Spanish Civ War)
-4 not 2 or 5 vic bars painted
-2/J88 emblem is 5/JG77 emblem and not personal emblem.

I’m back to Hackl right?

P.S. Edgar Struckmann’s 5 JG77 victories are not listed http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html so is his inclusion here an error?

Thanx,

Rob

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

I think IMHO the Top Hat it's not a Staffelbadge but a personal one and it's located where these are usually painted, in the cockpit area.
Furthermore, If it were the 5./JG77 Staffelbadge why Menge did not painted it in his Me109?? (see the attached picture)
In my oppinion, the pilot must be a veteran of 2./J88 in Spain and from the area of Hamburg because the motto: 'Hümmel-Hümmel'. Features that does not meet Hackl born in Regensburg.

Regards

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

Hi,


so why the black hat emblem was carried by black: 2,3,4,5,8 etc.?
Your profil shows Bf109 from late August 1940 when this staffel emblem started to disappear from the planes ( could be connected with change of Staka - Loijewski/Jung) and the fuselages were heavly mottled.
Now victories:
- 5/JG77 Fw.Robert Menge #4 24.04.40 07.40 Hudson 220 RAF N7285
- 5/JG77 Lt.Edgar Struckmann #4 24.04.40 07.40 Hudson 220 RAF N7286

Source: J.Prien "JFV Teil.3" page 22

Regards

Robert

Re: Experte Bf-109 ID Please? -Horst Carganico (60)? &
 

According to http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html only 3 pilots (Menge, Hackl & Petermann) are viable candidates.
-However Menge scored his 4 & 5th on the same day.
-Petermann scored his 4th, 5th & 6th victories on the same day.
-Hackl scored his 4th on 17 Jun 40.
-Vic Bars are for WWII vics (not Spanish Civ War)
-Bf 109E photo is of ‘Black 4’ –not Menge’s ‘Black 1’
-2/J88 emblem is 5/JG77 emblem and not personal emblem (Menge being an exception by late Aug 40?).

So I’m back to Hackl right?

P.S. Edgar Struckmann’s 5 JG77 victories are not listed with II/JG77s http://www.luftwaffe.no/SIG/1940/JG77/kills.html so is his candidacy an error?

Thanx,

Rob