Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

I would like to chime in and suggest there is another source for cross checking claims data: at least one of the JG 52 volumes put out by Niko Fast some years ago has tabulated claims and losses. As these volumes are compilations of articles by the veterans of JG 52, it could be useful. Unfortunately these books are rarer than hen's teeth. I have volumes 1-4( but they are in storage a thousand miles away!) and a total of 7 were published by Bernsberger.
I don't know if this helps any but I thought I should mention it.

Good Luck, and good hunting!

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

for those interested I've translated some paragraphs from the Khazanov article and added some translated general comments on the article from Jean-Yves Lorant and Hans Ring..access my site via the link below..."visit..homepage"..

cheers,

Neil

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

Neil..........there was no link in your posting

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

..John,

the link is in blue ..under my name...bottom left..automatically appears under each post.. or perhaps your screen is configured in such a way that you can't see it..?

Neil

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

When clicking your blue, underline name and after being directed to your home page: http://www.members.aol.com/falkeeins/Sturmgruppen
I receive the message that the URL cannot be found.

It would be better if you could just post the link to the page directly in your post.

Dénes

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

..links appear to be working properly...but try this link direct to the page

http://members.aol.com/falkeeins/Stu...annclaims.html

Neil

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

Arguments contra E & F really knocked me down.

Re: site
 

Neil:

For some reason I had never seen your site. It is very well done. My congratulations on some good work in getting these translations up. They are very useful.

Thanks!

John

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

Thank you for posting these translated excerpts (as far this article wasn't issued in Russian ever), but certainly I'm not impressed by critics.

All contras presented by these respectable researchers regards to Hartmann's claims. Details from a German point of view, again. And they gave no comments from Soviet side.

Obviously they couldn't, as far their experience in Soviet documents research is poor, I think.

In this light the words "a) the disparate & incomplete nature of the Soviet archives precludes any objective analysis - who shot down who, a "dangerously romanticised" version of the air war. " looks strange at least.

Soviet documents are rather complete and detailed. Those I dealed with are more informative than German ones I saw in Western publications, at least.

Both sides made overclaims - it's just a matter of fact that we, historians, should cope with calmly. As for German overclaims, me and Russian researchers I know who researched German claims in particular operations, combats etc. have an overall impression that German overclaiming rate was about 2-3 times. Of course it depended much on pilot personality, war period and other factors.

Best regards,

Andrey Dikov

Re: Erich Hartmann: 352 victories or... 80?
 

FalkeEin, it looks like your link contains majorly the comments from Mr Ring, where is the original article of Khazanov ?