Re: Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44
 

According to other sources the engagamant took place on 16/10 : the german fighters shot down 2 Bostons before being themselves both shot down by the escort fihgters, Windisch being shot down by Soviet pilots and Trenkel by French pilot Maurice Challe.

No losses are mentioned among escort fighters.

for an account, in French, of the engagement see :

http://mairie.orange.fr/frenchaces/as/m+c.html

Hope this can help you,

Kolya.

PS : Trenkel was reportedly shot down as many as five times in october 1944, while scoring 12 additionnal victories (he was already past 100 victories at the time...).

Re: Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44
 

Sorry but no losses on the German side on the 16.10.44. On this day the I/JG52 moved over from Ziechenau to Insterburg.
No information about air combat with Bostons. Olt.Trenkel bailed out twice on the 15.10.44 and belly-landed on the 17.10.44. No other information`s in loss list about him in October 1944.
Source: B.Barbas "Die Geschichte der I.Gruppe des Jagdgeschwader 52".

Robert

Re: Groupe Normandie on 17Oct44
 

Thanks for the verification on JG52 being in the area. According to Tony Woods list it was Ofw Walter Jahnke who shot down the Yak3 at 08:05. From the description it sounds like the incident but not far south 9/JG51 was engaging and claimed a Pe2 and a Yak9. Earlier Steve wrote that one a/c was shot down and two damaged. If Emonet was flying one of the Yak9's he would have been in the area of 9/JG51. The two Boston III's were claimed in the next intercept by Nehrig (1/JG52). So does anyone if Emonet was in a Yak3 or Yak9 to verify his position in this incident?

Re: Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44
 

Emonet was shot down when escorting Bostons and Pe-2s during the first mission of the day. No idea of the type he was flying.
And could the German pilots make the difference between a Yak-3 and a 9 in the heat of a dogfight?

Re: Groupe Normandie on 17Oct44
 

Probably not all of them but there was a captured Yak3 touring the airfields during 1944 (as confirmed in "The German Fighter Units over Russia" by Werner Held page 183) so there is always the chance for correct id. The incident involving the JG52 does sound like the correct story that I was searching for on the 17th.

Re: Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44
 

Ha! The Germans couldn't tell a La-5 from a La-7.
Do you think they were able to spot that the Yak they were fighting out had no intercooler intake under the nose? That's just another urban legend introduced by William Green.

Re: Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44
 

I located another part of the story. Nikolai Danilushkin (Radio operator-Gunner) and Stepan Fiippovich Yakubov (Navigator) after parachuting were covered by the Yak3 flown by Jean Emonet. After his Yak3 was shot down they landed in "No Man's Land". Emonet was wounded in the arm and both legs. Yakubov carried him back to Russian lines under fire for treatment.
Also another Pe2 was shot down that day flown by Lt Nikolai Petrovich Vorobyev who made a forced landing.
Thanks for the help,
Michael

Re: Groupe Normandie on 17Oct44
 

On the first post I had the target of the 135 GBAP listed as the railroad station at Trakhenen but the correct location is Eydkunen.

Re: Groupie Normandie on 17Oct44
 

As Adriano Baumgartner already stated in this thread, Mr. Hafner was not shot down but died due to hitting the ground (a tree?) during a lowlevel-dogfight.

Concerning JG52: Yes, they were in the area. There even exists a PK-report about some fights with Yak-3's. If I find it, I'll post some details.

Re: Groupe Normandie on 17Oct44
 

Groupe Normandie had six Yak-3's up on patrol at 14:00 (Moscow) in the area of Gumbinnen when they saw 40 bomb laden FW190's approaching the lines. They moved into position and attacked. The 18 GIAP also attacked this formation.
Sous Lt Roger Sauvage claimed 1 FW190 and 1 probable FW190
Lt Col. Pierre Pouyade FW190 Probable
Sous Lt Pierre Lorillon 2 FW190
Have no information on who the other three pilots.
18 GIAP
Kapt Nikolai Grigoyevich Pinchuk FW190
St.Lt. Vladimir Alexandrovich Balandin FW190
St. Lt. Grigorii Prokopyevich Repikhov FW190
Alexei A. Kalyuzhnyi FW190
Kapt Nikolai Nikitovich Danilenko FW190
Lt Nikolai Agalakov and Zakhariya Gogotoevich Margoev each chased a FW190 into the ground.
Which SG unit from the Luftwaffe was operating in this area and what were their losses?