Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hi Roger,

Eberhard Winkel was born on 2nd November 1920 at Stuttgart. So he had two birthdays that day: A real Geburtstag and a "Flieger-Geburtstag" , i.e. he survived this attack

All the best, Karl

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello Karl,

Thanks for the info! Do you have anything about the sortie on 2 November 1944? I couldn't find much in my books as the period November 1944 seems not to be well covered.

Best regards
Roger

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

My best guess is that this is B-17 42-31663 of the 379th BG, which came down on November 8, 1944 near Meerlo, which is quite close to Venlo airbase.
Best regards,
Ivo de Jong

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hello Ivo,

Thank you for the info. Meanwhile, I think the text on the backside of a photo was not of the B-17 photo but of one where Eberhard Winkel is shown and that the Venlo is referred to him rather than the B-17. He was insured on a mission on 2 November 1944 while attacking the Grave airfield.

So, the B-17 might have been shot down at a completely different date (and perhaps even by KG51 pilots, although only few victories are known of KG51 pilots as far as I know)?

Regards
Roger Gaemperle

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me 262 pilot.
 

Here some information about November 2nd, 1944 from the side of 2nd TAF.

02-11-44 NA/PRO Air 29/2003. No.83 Group Control Centre, Erp.
In the air 3 Me 262’s were damaged by 274 Sqn.

02-11-44 NA/PRO Air 25-698. HQ No.83 Group, Eindhoven
Grave airfield, now happily evacuated, was bombed by a Me 262.

According to Shores & Thomas 2nd TAF Vol. 2, pag.335, these 3 Me 262 claims were made between 15.05 and 15.10 hrs in the Nijmegen area.
Did the Tempests of 274 sqn. intercept the planes which have bombed Grave airfield? Have to check.

Indeed there are only some claims of Me 262 pilots against Allied a/c.
05.12.44 Fw. Schmidt, 1./KG 51 B-17 £ 05 Ost/GP-35: 1.800 m. 13.08 Film C. 2027/II Anerk: Nr. -

www.luftwaffe.cz/1945.html
16-3-1945 Lt. Wilhelm Batel I./KG 51 P-47

But I am sure you have seen these in the list of Tony Wood.

Jaap

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Hi all, was it ever determined which AA unit shot Hptm Winkel down on 2 Nov 44? I believe this was the first Flak loss for the Me262 and I am working on an AAA vs jets exhibit where this is critical information.

Thanks!

Jon

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

Did anybody keep these Ebay photos on file? Would like to have a look at it.

Regards,

John Manrho

Re: EBERHARD WINKEL 4./KG51 - Me262 pilot ???
 

DOB 02.11.1920

Rüdiger