Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

A mixture of RLM 66 and 65 would be less bluish than you think. At least much less than Gris Bleu Foncé (or whatever the French color was called).

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Been a while.

Since you mention it Primoz, what are the chances (next to mixing) of using some of the captured French paint stocks in the color experiments of that period?

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Ruy,

good suggestion. Although several matches for each French camouflage can be found throughout the literature two for Gris Bleu Fonce and Gris Bleu Clair would make a good high altitude camouflage without modification and are really quite close to the photographs in question (good-excellent balance, no chance of dark greens or even, contentiously, neutral greys going blue-grey): FS 5164 and FS 5189 respectively.

Cheers

GrahamB

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

According to Merrick (and maybe Ullmann as well, I can't remember clearly) the chances would be slim. Since aircraft paint is pretty advanced stuff, chemically speaking, they would probably not do things like that when they weren't sure how it would affect previous paints and the airframe itself...

No one has yet mentioned the fact (maybe idea is a better word) that colordescriptions was a bit different back in 1940 than today. Colors weren't as vivid as we're used to, so anything yellower than "off white" for example, would be called yellow. Same thing would probably go for blue or blueish grey. I don't doubt that the machine in question was painted in a blueish grey by the way...

There's one example, again from Merrick, where some Fw190's found in the mediterranean was referred to as blue in reports, but years later, some colorphotos emerged showing the aircraft in standard RLM74/75!

/Anders

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Are you referring to a/c actually found on the ground or a/c seen in the air? A grey aircraft seen at a considerable distance will look bluish because the air is slightly bluish (and so is snow; we call pure white "snow white" though snow isn't really white - under certain light conditions it looks light blue). Mountains covered with (green) forests will look blue on a hot summer day.

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Hi Anders,

I'm still undecided on this issue regardless of the specialist view.

The Germans used captured material and war booty operationally, if I extend that line of thought to necessity and (limited)logistics chances are that even Luftwaffe painters used the next best thing available to them while they waited for logistics to catch up.

Just a gut feeling, no proof whatsoever.

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Primoz: It was aircraft found on the ground so they were examined up close:

Ruy: I didn't think of it when I wrote my last post but Luftwaffe aircraft has been know to wear Italian paint so I guess French wouldn't be impossible either.

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Gents hi

This is a transcript of the
and the subsequent
I copied both of these from the actual logs ( Air 22/266) held at the Public Records Office (PRO) in Kew.
The entry for Von Werra, first the location report, and then the follow up crashsite visit report.
There is an interesting article by Paul Lucas in Sept04 issue of Model Aircraft Monthly, in which he looks at this report and others. Suggestions are made that Von Werra's aircraft could have been painted using
Fliegerblaugrau (Airforce Blue-Grey) RAL 840R 7016 (very similar in colour to the Royal Navy's Battleship Grey) which was used for painting Luftwaffe vehicles and equipment, and so likely to have been widely available at that time.
Lucas suggests this paint could have been mixed with white to produce a lighter blue-grey which would enable a splinter scheme to be painted. Also mentioned but stated as unlikley option was RLM 24 Dunkelblau which was normally used for markings.
There is an interesting and attractive set of profiles of Von Werra's aircraft in a blue splinter scheme within the article along with alternative schemes for another 5 Me109s including Perez's which may not have worn the standard schemes of that time.

HTH

Pete

Re: Blue or Blue-Gray Camouflage on Bf 109E
 

Very interesting! Again though, the colordescription is weird. I mean, even if all the colors were of a blueish tone, when they're three distinctly different colors (as is obvious from the photos) "All Blue" is hardly the best way to describe it.

There's a picture of an Emil in France, in color, that clearly shows a blueish grey camo - the engine cowling has been removed so the engine bearers are visible and the RLM02 there is much greener then the camocolors. In the background there's a trainer aircraft painted all RLM02 and it's also much greener than the 109.

So, grey or blueish grey certainly existed but as I said, these colordescriptions are not really ideal for solving any "mysteries"

Thanks for sharing though!

/Anders