Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

1. It's in the book - not my mind!

2. Is this any better?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...4/RAF2/601.jpg

3. Although I thought at one time that I should be a test pilot, I really can't hope to comment on the finer details of various marks.

= Tim

...and Russia 66 years ago!
 

Tim

Glad to hear you seem to be fine.

66 years ago in good old Hurricane Z5236 'O' you were providing escort to some Russian bombers over the front line in the Arctic. Must seem like a long time ago on only like yesterday on occasions.

Been cold in the Cotswolds today as well. First real cold snap. I think it started to get cold and snow at Veanga 66 years ago around this time as well.

Keep well.

regards

Mark Sheppard

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

So exactly correct as per usual, Mark!!

So, since it almost qualifies under the title of this thread, here is the evidence - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...patrol4109.jpg

The 1hr 20min one was 27/9 in No8 Zone. The next was 28/9 in No2 Zone.

Cold? Yes!!

= Tim

PS We were talking about the stupidity of Weavers a while back. I note that I was at it again a few lines up!!

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Tim

Of course on the 6th October 1941 you claimed half of a Ju88.

I did send you this article did I not? If not, here is a link.

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/englis...5252/index.htm

Wondered what the large white object in the cocpit was. Did not seem to be standard. Interestingly this Hurricane still carried its standard armament.

This Hurricane has been gifted to the Russian Nation. Would be good for them to get it restored. It is very historic to them, being first Russian Hurricane flown, gifted to Kuznetsov and thought to be flown by Safanov as well.

I will have to come and see you at some stage being so close to home.

regards

Mark

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Coming? Well, get on with it!!

White object? Beats me!

1/2 an 88? Yes, the other 1/2 got away!!

I'd seen much of the recovery but not that post. Excellent!

= Tim

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

It could be F/O Humphrey T. Gilbert between McCann and Ogilvie.

Michal

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Thanks - long deceased. = Tim

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Killed as OC, 65 Sqn during an accident (flight to a party) on 2 May 1942.

Michal

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

So it looks we have only three more to go.

Tim, I have send you a private message in regard of scan, if you are not used to the system, you have to click on private messages in the right (or rather starboard) upper corner.
I see the point with virtues of various marks, but then could you comment about Typhoon and Thunderbolt? What else types have you flown?
Also, apart of 601, have you served with any other Polish airmen?
Thank you

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

1. I'll have to seek help in improving the photo - way beyond me!

3. No.

2. Not a scientific comparison, but the Typhoon was a snarling brute & the P47 was a gentle one!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...RAF2/flown.jpg

= Tim

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Well, I am afraid posting the list was a little bit unwise. Now you can expect thousands of questions concerning the gems you flew! For example, what was your favourite?
Concerning the photo, no hurry, I suppose any kid in the neighbourhood would be able to help. Sometimes they make me feeling well over 100.
If not, then sorry, I would have to visit you and do it by myself.

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

The FAQ!! What favourite??

I know that so many would opt for the Spit but, really, it's horses for courses. In the early days, yes. But then things like the Sea Fury & Tempest II took ones fancy.

The P47 & 51 - with their comfort zones & ability to SMOKE in them -!!!- the first for dive bombing, the second for getting home low & slow in the clag. And for ferrying Parry's Gin in overload tanks in India!!

The Typhoon was a thing one loved to tame. The 190 & Zeke obviously had the quickest flip of them all.

I loved them all!!

= Tim

PS I'm working on the photo.

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Several pilots I know and knew complained about a rather limited comfort of the Spitfire, especially lack of anything in kind of air conditioning. Others complained about a rather cramped cockpit of the Hurricane, and I suppose it was the same with the Typhoon, seeing a cockpit section in Duxford.
190 and Zeke, where have you been flying them? Also, I see you have been flying U-2 in Russia, any comments on the bird?
All the best

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

First - see my PM - I've tried twice today to mail you the photo without success.

Then -

1. Comfort, Cramped, Air Conditioning. Someone has to be joking?? We did not build for comfort - just for economic efficiency - not for people pleasure. I never felt 'cramped'. In fact, it is always said that, in the Spitfire, you were a part of it. Certainly no ashtrays as in US versions, where you were almost a passenger!! And why more space? To lay back in? OK - on a many hour sortie into Germany, yes. Otherwise?? Air Conditioning? You mean Climate Control? We had it. The higher you flew the colder!! Did any WWII aircraft actually have it? More money than sense? The Typhoon? Acres of room!

2. 190 - Tangmere 1945. Zeke - India 1945.

3. U-2? Caveat - 'Ooh dvah' or 'oochebney'. A biplane ambulance - rather like a pregnant Fox Moth!!

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Reply send.
Well, it everything goes for combat efficiency and is a simple calculation of cost of an airman and an aircraft. Even such a simple thing like a floor could save one's life if he dropped his maps. Perhaps British industry did not calculate in the way?
I suppose it depends on size of a pilot. I know the taller ones complained a lot about it. I think it is more in ergonomy than actual space available. The one did not need a lot of room in Fw 190 as he had everything in the right place.
I believe American and German fighters had a regulated ventilation. Am I wrong?
Several veterans I have talked to, complained that it was really tiring during trips to France, when they had to change altitude several times, and it was not possible to have a proper set of clothes. I think such a 1,5-2 hrs ride could have been enough to get a cold.
Well, I am not sure if I would fit into the cockpit and I do not feel oversized! Nonetheless I get your word onto it.
Thanks. Was it a pleasure flying?
By ambulance do you mean it had an enclosed back cockpit or rather two containers on wings? Later known as Po-2, we still have few flying in Poland. It is interesting to note, that this 1926 design originated from Avro 504!
One more thing, a BoB Hurricane veteran once told me that they were faced with the choice of using fuselage tank first, risking explosion of fumes in case of direct hit, or to keep it full as long as possible risking severe burns. Do you remember such discussions?
Best wishes

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Yes, Franek - maybe I was a little flippant in my cups last night. We would have loved some creature comforts. On patrol at 30,000' in '41, my fingers were so numb I could not change to reserve fuel & had to return to base. I subsequently trialled the first pair of electrically heated gloves in service. Heaven!!

Yes - a floor would have been a joy, even to keep the grit out of your eyes when inverted! But we were unquestioning in the early days - just so thrilled to have such fine aircraft. And refinements? In part due to having our backs to the wall, & materials & capacity being short, whereas others had time to think & the capability to produce? And, as you suggest, lack of imagination?

Yes - I would have loved a cockpit like the P47 - http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...4/RAF2/p47.jpg - but I still felt more of a passenger than the main cog. And how did we cope in our toy aircraft without all those switches??

190/Zeke? Most memorable was their rate of roll.

Y2? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...F2/y2Small.jpg

Fuel tanks? Perhaps something that was learned later through bitter experience.

= Tim

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

That is the thing I cannot understand. Technology was just there and it was not any state of the art, nonetheless it was not introduced immediatelly, when needed.
Nevermind, I am just noting facts, and actually I am more interested what was actually a necessary equipment and not luxury. Just an interest in engineering issues.
Grit? Tools were the problem! One of the Polish pilots almost passed in the cockpit, when hit by a mutter, during cleaning it in the air. Some Frenchman must have left it in the new Curtiss Hawk. Reputedly this happened with several worn and overhauled aircraft.
Well, it was a perfect aircraft for long range sorties. You had a plenty of switches to play with, and could have a walk if too tired!
But was it efficient dog fighter? I assume you mostly flew it as a ground attack aircraft.
Personally I am impressed by the range of Zero, but I understand you have not flying it so long. Was not the cockpit a little bit small? The one flying currently in the US has its seat moved a little bit backwards.

Oh, a version with a cabin on the back of the fuselage. I liked the Soviet sollution of flying with CoG moved backwards in ambulance/transport variants. Just press the stick a little bit forward. Is not it simple?
The man told me in regard of his downing that occurred on 5 September 1940. I was just wondering if it was widespread belief.
All the best

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Comfort? Wish I had had Jonathan Clancey's "Spitfire - the Biography" - which I was given yesterday - before replying. Informative & readable. Nice bits about the 109, 190 & P51. And the ATA. Much of my comment is surmising, so don't pay too much attention to it.

Grit? You had mentioned the lethal spanner - I thought to add the everyday shower of grit when inverted.

P47? No ops experience - just trials. In the dive bombing mode. One task was to establish why they blew up on recovery. Splitting fuel cells was the answer. Did a lot of inverted circuits to re-establish confidence.

Switches? I know I've said this before, but it's topical? Chasing girl friend in Trincomalee, Ceylon (1945) - She's gone up to the hills - take off again for Ratmalana - oh, dear,it's getting dark - lighting? - never flown it at night - eventually sorted that - then the radio failed - no nav aids - re-established contact - "you're 90 miles West of Ratmalana heading West"!! - finally reached Her in the hills after several hours in a mail van - had tea - & that was it. I have the cutting of Her marriage to Her betrothed. Oh, well??

Zero? No - longest trip curtailed by a fuel leak in the cockpit. Much fun trying to establish what all the dials were! Here's my impression.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../RAF2/zeke.jpg

Fuel Tanks? Sound thinking! Glad I didn't know!!

= Tim

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

No, I disagree, because then they would not be your comments.
That is why Polish Spitfires had a stencil - clean your footwear before entering the cockpit. I am afraid that grit would be present all the time, though perhaps easier to clean with a floor present.
That is very interesting, never heard of blewing up Thunderbolts. Was it during your time at ADFU?
Well, whatever dramatic it was, it makes a good story now. Possibly one of the most expensive teas ever paid by a British taxpayer.

Wonderful drawing! Was the aircraft serviced this way as well? I mean, did the groundcrew make a wild guess what should be done and where?
You should be rather glad you was not hit there, should not you?
Best wishes

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Indeed - the starboard tank was bad enouigh!!

Re: Circus, Ramrods, Rhubarbs & Sweeps July 1941
 

Franek - apologies - I failed to reply to your last post.

P47? Yes - in 1944.

Zeke? never thought about that. Glad I didn't!!

= Tim