Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

O6 May 43 Raid on Poltava and Osnova(?) airfields
Bostons of the 454 BAP drop bombs on their targets. On returning to there lines they are attacked by Bf-109's. Ml. Lt. N.A. Shumikhina's Boston is hit and crew bail out. Shumikhina and Sgt V.S. Yevsey are WIA.
Uffz Gerhard Thyben 6/JG3 claims a Boston at 04:45 (70395).

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

actually:

Shumikhin

"a" means that person is a female. For example - "he" - Kuznetsov, "she" Kuznetsova :)

But in same time, the same "a" letter means "by" or "of".

For example:

"Aircraft of Kuznetsov" will be "Самолёт Кузнецова" :)

"Boston of Shumikhin" will be "Бостон Шумихина" :)

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

06 May 43 19:15
Kramatorskaya airfield
6 Il-2 775 ShAP
6 La-5 GIAP
10 Yak-1 867 IAP

Losses for 775 ShAP: four Il-2 shot down by Bf-109's
Losses for 867 IAP: Yak-1 in Torskaya(?) region by unk
Losses for 5 GIAP: La-5 hit by AAA but possibly could have been shot down by a fighter.
VVS claims: FW-190 and a Bf-109

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

ARR Bf 109Gs claimed that day 2 Il-2s and 4 LaGGs (plus another one probable), in the Kramatorskaya-Slavjyansk area. However, the claims were scored early in the morning, not in the evening.
Two Rumanian '109s were hit in air battle, but both returned to the base.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Oki, Nokose.

I'll try to make some additional lists. I think it is much easier for me than for You. I understand You have language troubles reading a book.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Shatalovo and Borovskoye(~4:30)

To Borovskoye:

10 x Il-2 (leader Major Karyakin, 198 shap)
6 x Il-2 (leader Ml.Ltn. Egorov, 62 shap) with close escort of ?? x Yak-1 (leader St.Lt. Seroglazov, 162 iap)
4 x Il-2 (leader St.Lt. Alferov, 312 shap).

To Shatalovo:

5 x Il-2 (leader Major St.Lt.M.Stupishin, 312 shap) with close escort of 2 x La-5 (leader Kap.Chalbash, 49 iap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

Over Yelnya group of 312 shap came under attack of 6 x Fw190+Bf109's.

Losses:
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. I.Pastukhov, 312 shap) shot down by Fw190, crashed at 10km NE Yelnya;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. L.Komarovskiy, 312 shap) shot down by Fw190, crashed at area Shatalovo;

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack on both airfield is not seen because of aircombat.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

~6:25 group of 312 shap came under attack of 1 Bf110.
~6:30 group came under attack of large group of Fw190

Losses:

Il-2 (312 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;
Il-2 (312 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;
Il-2 (312 shap) heavy damaged by Bf110, crashlanded at his base airfield;

Claims:

Bf110 shot down by Il-2 gunners (Ml.Serj. Zubrarev - WiA, 62 shap), crashed in area of Baltunino;
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 gunners (312 shap), crashed and burned in area of Borovskoye;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap.Chalbash, 49 iap), crashed in area of Zhary;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-1 (St.Lt. Seroglazov, 162 iap), crashed in area of airfield;

2 - Raid to attack airfield Borovskoye (19:20-19:25)<<<<<writing description in progress>>>>
3 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (5:30-5:45)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (5:17-5:37)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~12:00)
6 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~17:00)
7 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~19:00)

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan (~5:20)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (5:20-5:30)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (5:30-5:32)
4 - Raid to attack airfields Poltava and Osnova
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (~15:00)
6 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (~15:00)

17 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (5:03 - 5:17)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~19:15)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Dnepropetrovsk-South (~6:10)

15 VA raid:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (~6:30)

16 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka
2 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-GVF (~14:30)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Khmelevaya and Gat' (Knubr') (14:28 - 14:30)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (~14:20)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Orel-Central (14:30 - 14:35)

8 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Kutejnikovo (~13:00)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Stalino (~5:45)

16 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Bolshaya Kulikovka (~5:22)
2 - Raid to attack airfields Khmelevaya (5:50-5:55) and Orel-Central (~6:00)

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfields Kharkov-Aleshki and Kharkov-Sokol'niki (evening)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan' (~19:15)

1 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (~5:00)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (~5:07)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka

8 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Ilovajsk (~8:45)
2 - Raid to attack airfield Ilovajsk (~14:25)
3 - Raid to attack airfield Kutejnikovo (~9:00)
4 - Raid to attack airfield Stalino (~9:00)
5 - Raid to attack airfield Kramatorskaya (~5:10)

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Briefly I can tell, that the most TRAGICAL raids were:

16 x Il-2 of 41 shap escorted by Yak-1 of 896 iap:

- claimed 2 x Bf109
- lost 16 x Il-2 !!!, and 2 Yak-1....

15 x Il-2 of 79 gshap, with escort of 8 x Yak-1 of 563 iap and 8 x Yak-7B 519 iap:

-claimed 8 x Fw190;
-lost 7 x Il-2, and 1 Yak-1

14 x Il-2 of 218 shap, with escort of 12 La-5 of 297 iap and fighter sweep of 8 x Yak-1 of 896 iap:

-claimed 2 x Fw190;
-lost 6 x Il-2, 3 x La-5, 2 x Yak-1.

6 x Il-2 of 79 gshap, 6 x Il-2 of 58 gshap, with escort of 5 x Yak-1 of 563 iap and 5 x Yak-1 of 176 iap;

-claimed: 3 x Fw190 and 2 x Bf109;
-lost: 3 x Yak-1, 12 x Il-2!!!

18 x A-20 Boston (861 bap) with escort of 7 x La-5 of 5 giap, and 7 x Yak-1 of 867 iap;

-claimed: 1 x Fw190 and 5 x Bf109;
-lost: 1 x La-5 and 6 x A-20...

6/7 May 1943
 

Hi guys

Again, many thanks to Nokose and Evgeny for their efforts. In attempting to match up which units engaged which raids, could it be that:

6 May 1943
Orel-GVF at 14:30 was opposed by Stabsstaffel and I./JG 51
Orel-Central at 14:30 was opposed by IV./JG 51
Kramatorskaya at 19:15 was opposed by III./JG 3

7 May 1943
Kramatorskaya at 5:10 was opposed by III./JG 3

However, the raids against Bolshaya Kulikovka, Khmelevaya and Orel-Central seems to have been opposed by I., III. and IV./JG 51 and I am unable to sort out who fought who. Do either of you guys have any idea how to figure this out if it is possible? Of course, I realize that in an engagement such as this with multiple units engaged in the same general area and time it is most likely impossible to do so.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Evgeny, Nokose, Leo and Dénes

Thanks a lot for the excellent and interesting info!

Juha

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

The Rumanian victory claims for May 6, I mentioned earlier, were logged between 4:00 and 4:30 a.m. (possibly Bucharest's time, i.e. Moscow's time-2 hrs.).

Next day, a Rumanian fighter pilot claims an Il-2 near Slavyansk. No timing is available to me), while on May 9 two more LaGG-3s were claimed, also in the same area.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Slavyanks - (it is nowday name because it became sity, during WW II it was a village and called Slavyanskaya) is placed in Kuban region, as far as I know.

The main thing I suggest in this thread, gents:

- trying to find out actual Luftwaffe losses ON THE GROUND among all airfields wich came under attack (it will show a rate of Efficiency of attacks);

- trying to confirm claims of Luftwaffe fighter pilots (it could be done already with June raids, as it is described fully);

- trying to confirm air-to-air claims of VVS fighters+shturmoviks+bombers;

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Since Denes advised that two Rumanian Bf-109G's were damaged in the area Kramatorsk on the 06May43. Can anyone advise if III/JG3 had any Bf-109's losses or damaged in the 05:03 raid?

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Slavyansk is a town in Donetsk region (Ukraine). It has nothing in common with Slavyanskaya.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

O :) Hallo, Nikita :)

Didnt knew that, sorry.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Denes, Did the Hungarian 5/1. FS suffer any damage or losses on the 06May43? I read that they were stationed at Kharkov-Osnova. Has any one been able to find any losses or damages for the III/JG3 in the Kramatorskaya area for 0:503?

JG 51 Losses 6-8 May 1943
 

Hi guys

According to Anders/Held, JG 51 did not suffer any pilots killed from 6 through 8 May 1943. This does not mean that the unit did not suffer any losses, as it is known that Oberfeldwebel Kurt Tanzer (128 victories, RK) of 12./JG 51 was badly injured on 6 May in aerial combat with Il-2 Sturmoviks and fighters although he did claim four victories during the fray. He managed to land his shot up Fw 190 A-4 "Brown 7" (W.Nr. 0147 161) but was out of action until 4 November 1943.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Russian ace Sergei Grigoryevich Glinkin of the 5GIAP was flying a La-5 on the raid to Kramatorsk on the 06May43 at05:03. He claimed I believe his first two victories on that mission. He might have been the wingman for ace Lt. Ivan Kildyushev.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

2 - Raid to attack airfield Borovskoye (19:20-19:25)

6 x Il-2 (leader Ml.Ltn. Egorov, 62 shap) with close escort of 4 x Yak-1 (122 iap)
4 x Il-2 (leader St.Lt. Alferov, 312 shap) with close escort of 2 x La-5 (49 iap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

312 shap came under attack of 4-6 Fw190.
Claims:
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Kap.Tzagoiko, 49 iap), crashed in area of Seltzo;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (Major Lyubimov,49 iap), crashed in area of 30-40km from Borovskoye a/f;)

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack on airfields:

62 shap - 3 x Flak, 18-20 aircrafts damaged and destroyed on earth;
312 shap - 1 x Flak, 1 big building destroyed, 3 aircratfs damaged.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

Groups came under attack of group of Bf109's and Fw190's.

Claims:

Bf109 shot down by Il-2 gunners (Bereschenko - 312 shap), crashed in area of target;
Fw190 shot down by La-5 (49 iap), crashed and burned in area of from Borovskoye a/f;)

Losses:

Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Shapovalov, 62 shap) heavy damaged by enemy fighter, crashlanded in area Alfyorovo;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Egorov, 62 shap) light damaged by enemy fighter, landed in Dvoevka a/f;
Il-2 (St.Lt. Panfilov, 62 shap) light damaged by enemy fighter, landed in Dvoevka a/f;

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

3 - Raid to attack airfield Sescha (5:30-5:45)

1st wave:
6 x Il-2 (leader Kap. Kornienko, 565 shap) +1 x Il-2 (966 shap) with close escort of 7 x Yak-7B (St.Lt. Yakovlev, 168 iap)

2nd wave:

9 x Pe-2 (261 bap), escort for all groups provided by 24 x Yak-1 (303 iad)
9 x Pe-2 (130 bap)
9 x Pe-2 (2 bap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

All clear;

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack on airfield:

565 shap, 966 shap: destroyed 25-30 aircrafts,

261 bap, 2 bap, 130 bap: 2 aircrafts destroyed, explosions on the runway, hungars.

Losses:

Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Simonov, 565 shap) shot down by Flak, crashed in airfield;

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

All clear;

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

4 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (5:17-5:37)

6 x Il-2 (Mjr. Glukhovtsev, 571 shap) with escort of 6 Yak-7B (18 giap)
5 x Il-2 (St.Lt. Zatsepa, 571 shap) with escort of 6 Yak-7B (18 giap)
6 x Il-2 (571 shap) with escort of 6 Yak-7B (18 giap)

8 x Pe-2 (6 bap) with escort of 6 Yak-1 (303 iad)
8 x Pe-2 (38 bap) with escort of 6 Yak-1 (303 iad)

--------------------------
Road to target:

All clear;

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack on airfield:

571 shap: destroyed 6 x Bf109, 5 x Ju88, 2 hangars, 5 automobiles, 2 x Flak, 1 ammodepot
Claims:
Bf109 shot down on takeoff by Il-2 (571 shap)

6 bap + 38 bap: direct hits in hangars.

---------------------
Road from target to home bases:

571 shap intercepted by 6 x Fw190 and Bf109

Claims:

Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (18 giap), crasged in airfield;
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (18 giap), crasged in airfield;

Losses:

Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Dyadishev, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area of airfield;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. B.Novikov, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area of airfield;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. F.Lapshin, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area of airfield;
Il-2 (Ml.Lt. D.Laptev, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area of airfield;

Il-2 (Ml.Lt. V. Muravyov, 571 shap) heavy damaged by enemy fighters, bellylanded in area of Bryanjkovo;

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

5 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~12:00)

6 x Yak-7B (20 iap), with escort of 7 x Yak-7B (Normandie)

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack on airfield:

20 iap: 13 aircrafts destroyed on airfield;

6 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~17:00)

6 x Yak-7B (18 giap)

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack on airfield:

18 giap: 6 aircrafts destroyed on airfield;

Claims:

Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (18 giap), over airfield;

7 - Raid to attack airfield Lubinka (~19:00)

5 x La-5 (Leader - St.Lt. Tolmachyov, 523 iap)

--------------------------
Over the target:

Group was intercepted by 6 Fw190;

Result of attack on airfield:

Not known, because of aircombat.

Losses:

La-5 (Serj. Bezborodov, 523 iap) - damaged by Fw190, bellylanded in airfield Dugino;
La-5 (Lt. Mishenkov, 523 iap) - damaged by Fw190, landed in his airfield.

7 - Raid to airfield Sescha (time not known)

9 x Pe-2 (2 bap) + 9 x Pe-2 (130 bap), escprt provided by 27 Yak-1 and Yak-7B of 303 iad and 20 iap.

--------------------------
Over the target:

Group was intercepted by 1 Bf109 and 6 Fw190;

Claims:

Bf109 was shot down by Yak-7B (303 iad)
Fw190 (shared) was shot down by pair (Kap. Butuzov and Ml.Lt. Mashkin)

Result of attack on airfield:

Destroyed 2 hangars and 3 buildings.

Losses:

Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Plachinda, 130 bap) shot down by Bf109 in area of airfield;
Pe-2 (Ml.Lt. Fyodorov, 130 bap) shot down by Flak in area of airfield;
Yak-1 (St.Lt. Korobkov, 20 iap) shot down by Fw190 in area of airfield;
Yak-1 (Ml.Lt. Sulimov, 20 iap) shot down by Fw190 in area of airfield;

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

2 VA raids:

1 - Raid to attack airfield Rogan (~5:20)

6 x Il-2 (Leader Kap. Eliseyev), escort 10 x La-5 (240 iap)
6 x Il-2 (Leader. Ml.Lt. Aleksandrov), escort 8 x La-5 (193 iap)

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack:
Damaged and destroyed ~30 aircrafts, 8 x Flak, 18 fires;

Losses:

3 x Il-2 damaged by Flak, 1 x Il-2 (Serj. Smirnov) crashed on his airfield.


2 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (5:20-5:30)

6 x Il-2 (Leader St.Lt. M.Stepanov, 800 shap) escort by Yak-1’s and Yak-7B’s (183 iap)
4 x Il-2 (Leader Lt. Odintsov, 800 shap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

After crossing frontline, group came under attack of 2 x Bf109.

Losses:

Yak-1 (183 iap) shot down by Bf109, crashed near fronline
Yak-1 (183 iap) shot down by Bf109, crashed near fronline

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack: Destroyed on airfield - 2 x Ju88, 9 x Bf109, 1 radiocar, 10 fires, 2 x Flak, damaged ~14 Bf109.

3 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (5:30-5:32)

5 x Il-2 (Leader St.Lt. Kostyrko, 820 shap) with escort of 8 x Yak-1 of 6 iap

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack: - 3 large explosions spotted.

--------------------------
Road from target to base:

Group came under attack of several Bf109

Claims:

Bf109 was damaged by Il-2 gunners( Serj. Butov), “enemy aircraft caught heavy smoke trail and falled down to earth”

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Any claim analisys of June raids done?

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Kursk The Air Battle by Christer Bergstrom lists the following:
06May43 04:30-06:00 a total of 22 to ground attack including 8 from JG51, 6 from KG4 and 6 from 4.(F)/11. none for the other raids thru the 08May43. No mention of victims in the air.
08Jun43 that JG51 lost 1 FW190.

Teniente Alejandro Pérez
 

Hi guys

I should correct a previous post of mine: Feldwebel Hubert Hempel was killed in aerial combat over Sybino on 6 May 1943. My apologies for the error. Here is a photograph of Teniente Alejandro Pérez González of 15.(span)/JG 51 who was killed on 8 June 1943 when he baled out of his fighter but struck the tail. These appear to be the only JG 51 pilots killed in the series of raids. RIP.

Horrido!

Leo

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

4 - Raid to attack airfields Poltava and Osnova

5 x A-20B (454 bap) to Poltava without escort
5 x A-20B (454 bap) to Osnova without escort

--------------------------
Road from target to base:
Group intercepted by several enemy fighters.

Losses:

A-20B (Ml. Lt. Shumikhin, 454 bap), shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area Volchansk.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

5 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Sokol'niki (~15:00)

5 x Il-2 (Leader St. Lt. Zabnenkov, 820 shap), with escort of 8 x Yak-7B of 6 iak.

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack: -damaged and destroyed ~10 aircrafts (Ju88, Bf109, Bf110’s)

Losses:

Il-2 damaged by Flak (Ltn. Ostrov, 820 shap), returned to his airfield.

--------------------------
Road from target to base:

Group was intercepted by 10-12 Bf109. 2 x Bf109 could pas the escort and attack Il-2’s.

Claims:

Bf109 shot down by Il-2 gunners (Serj. Belokonny, 820 shap), crashed into wood near airfield.

6 - Raid to attack airfield Kharkov-Aleshki (~15:00)

6 x Il-2 (Ltn. Odintzov, 800 shap) with escort of 8 x Yak-1 and Yak-7 (183 iap)
7 x La-5 (193 iap) - Blocking airfields Pomerki and Kharkov-Sokol'niki

--------------------------
Road to target:

In area of Vesyoloye, Liptzy group came under attack of 12 x Bf109.

Losses:

Il-2 (Serj. Chepelyuk, 800 shap) damaged by Bf109, bellylanded at 5 km NW Vesyoloye
Il-2 (St. Serj. Begel’dinov, 800 shap) damaged by Bf109, bellylanded at 5 km NW Vesyoloye
Yak-7B (183 iap) failed to return from combat mission
Yak-7B (183 iap) failed to return from combat mission
Yak-7B (183 iap) failed to return from combat mission
Yak-7B (183 iap) failed to return from combat mission
La-5 (193 iap) failed to return from combat mission
La-5 (193 iap) failed to return from combat mission
La-5 (193 iap) failed to return from combat mission
La-5 (193 iap) shot down in area Liptzy

Claims:

Bf109 damaged by Il-2 gunners (Serj. Dmitriev, crew of Serj. Chepelyuk, 800 shap), breaked attack with smoke trail;
Bf109 shot down by Il-2 gunners (Nikonov and Belousov, 800 shap), crashed in area Liptzy;
Bf109 shot down by Yak-1 (St. Serj. Novikov, 183 iap), crashed in area Vesyoloye;
Bf109 shot down (shared) by Yak-7B and Yak-1 *Ml. Lt. Petrushkin and St.Serj. Yurchenko, 183 iap) crashed in area Vesyoloye;

Group was managed to return, no attack on target.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Could someone compile a list of Luftwaffe (or may be Hungarian and Romanian also) units, based on that 5 days in may june 43?

It will show what aircrafts COULD be damaged/destroyed on the ground.

Also: could this thread be Sticky?

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

One of the most blodly raids:

10 june 1943

3 - Raid to attack airfield Bryansk (20:20 ~ 20:30)

6 x Il-2 (Kap. I. Vykhor, 571 shap), 8 x Yak-7B (St.Lt. N.Semyonov, 18 giap)
5 x Il-2 (St.Lt. F. Ermolin, 571 shap), 7 x Yak-7B (Kap. V.Seryogin, 168 iap)
6 x Il-2 (St.Lt. A.Mashnev, 566 shap), 8 x Yak-7B (Kap.Borodin, 168 iap)
5 x Il-2 (St.Lt. Ryabov, 566 shap), 4 x Yak-7B (St.Lt. Yakovlev, 168 iap)

8 x Pe-2 (Kap.M.Grishin, 261 bap), 8 x Yak-7B (Kap.S.Sibirin, 18 giap), 7 x Yak-7B (St.Lt. Zamorin, 18 giap)

--------------------------
Road to target:

Group came under attack of large group of Fw190;

Claims:

Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (St.Lt. Yakovlev, 168 iap), crashed in area Svir'
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (Podp. Pil'schikov, 168 iap), crashed in area Batogovo
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (Podp. Pil'schikov, 168 iap), crashed in area Batogovo
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (Lt. Petrov, 168 iap), crashed in area Railroad Station Seltzo.

Losses:

Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Kanaev, 566 shap) shot down by Fw190, failed to return from combat mission
Il-2 (St.Lt. Shuleshko, 566 shap) shot down by Fw190, failed to return from combat mission
Yak-7B (St.Lt. Sokolov, 18 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, failed to return from combat mission
Yak-7B (Ml.Lt. Shumsky, 18 giap) shot down by enemy fighters, failed to return from combat mission
Yak-7B (St.Lt. Yakovlev, 168 iap) damaged by enemy fighters, emlanded on his airfield;
Yak-7B (Ml.Lt. Kochnev, 168 iap) shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area of Railroad Station Seltzo.

--------------------------
Over the target:
Result of attack:
destroyed ~17 and damaged ~12 aircrafts, 4 large explosions (probably fuel depots), 1 x Flak;

--------------------------
Road to target:

Group came under attack of 15 x Fw190 (it was around 20:21), in area Samara-Raditza to Uritzkogo.

Claims:

Fw190 shot down by Il-2 gunner (Kap.Sher, 571 shap), crashed 3km E of Batogovo
Fw190 shot down by Il-2 (Ml.Lt. Ryazantzev, 571 shap), crashed 12 km NE of Batogovo
Fw190 damaged by Il-2 gunners (St.Serj. Vorozhejkin, 571 shap), in area Podbuzhje
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B (Ml.Lt. Kuprienkov, 168 iap), crashed in area Batogovo – Bryansk
Fw190 shot down by Yak-7B ( Lt. Zamkovsky, 18 giap), crashed in area Bezhitza
Fw190 shot down by Pe-2 gunners (Kap. Sheremet, 261 bap), crashed in area Zhizdra

Losses:

Il-2 ( St.Lt. Bubnov, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( Ml.Lt. Muravyov, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( Kap. I.Vykhor, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( Ml.Lt. Bol’shakov, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( St.Lt. Baranenko, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( Lt. Borisyuk, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( Lt. Privalov, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( St.Lt. Ermolin, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( Ml.Lt. Skantzev, 571 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Podbuzhje
Il-2 ( St.Lt. Pepelyaev, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Il-2 ( Ml.Lt. Sil’chenko, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Il-2 ( St.Lt. Trofimov, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Il-2 ( Lt. Zasypkin, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Il-2 ( St.Lt. Ryabov, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Il-2 ( Kap. Skarednov, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Il-2 ( Serj. Nikitin, 566 shap) shot down by enemy fighters, Bryansk-Shalymovo
Pe-2 (Kap.Grishin, 261 bap), shot down by enemy fighters, crashed in area Zhizdra - Maklaki

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Hi,
first I would like to thank all involved in this very interesting thread. I compiled yours and other datas - maybe it is of help.

Greetings from Germany

Monaco

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Normandie used Yak-1B

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Yes, right :) Typo.

10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Final list for 10 june operations.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Raid on Orel 08Jun43
Claims:
Fw Bernhard Vechtel 10/JG51
Il-2 64843 19:16
Il-2 64853 19:19
Uffz Wilhelm Weber 10/JG51
Il-2 64881 19:20
Lt Heinz Venth 9/JG51
Il-2 64851 19:25
Lt Karl-Heinz Weber 7/JG51
Il-2 64844 19:18
Some additional information from the book on that raid. The 12 Il-2's of the 614 ShAP were all on there 1st combat mission that day. On leaving Orel 4 Il-2's were escorted by Ml. Lt. Dimitruk of the 50 IAP (no wingman or other fighter's). He was flying top cover above the 4 Il-2's below. He saw that one was damaged but thought it was from AAA at Orel. He later saw it suddenly go down. He then saw the last 3 over a forest area and lost sight of them. It was in the area of the above claims. He never saw them again after that time. All the other 8 Il-2's seem to have went down to the west and south of this location. With no VVS witnesses to their fate.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Here is a "POSSIBLE" answer to two of the claims made on 08Jun43 on the raid of the Orel-GVF airfield. Capt. Karashtin and Ml. Lt. Kuliev in Yak-1's (65 GIAP) flew to "block" Orel-GVF but scattered from the formation under AAA going to the west of Orel. Capt Karashtin stated he was involved in a futile dogfight with a Fw190. Both managed to cross the the front line and land at another airfield before later returning to their airfield. Fw Alfons Mittermaier 9/JG51 made a claim for a LaGG-5 at 19:21 (53261 at 300m) and Maj. Erich Leie Stab I/JG51 for a Yak-7 at 19:35 (53423 tiefflug). Both loactions are west of Orel and the only known in that area at this time.

JG 51 Losses
 

Hi guys

Here is a list of several losses that JG 51 suffered during the days mentioned in this thread. Doubtless it is not complete and I have no idea if all of these were specifically suffered during the raids covered on this thread. Nevertheless, I hope that this adds a little more to our knowledge of these events.

6 May 1943:

12.JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 "Brown 7" (W.Nr. 0147 161) flown by Oberfeldwebel Kurt Tanzer, wounded in aerial combat at Orel, 40%
12./JG 51: Feldwebel Wilhelm Mildner wounded by enemy fire southeast of Orel
IV./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0145 743) flown by Feldwebel Hubert Hompel, killed in aerial combat at Sybino, 100%

III./JG 51 damaged by bombing at Schatalowka-West

Fw 190 A-5 (W.Nr. 0152 658) 20%
Fw 190 A-5 (W.Nr. 0157 357) 10%

11./JG 51 damaged by bombing at Orel-West

Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 495) 15%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0145 711) 10%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0145 810) 10%

12./JG 51 damaged by bombing at Orel-West

Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 510) 30%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 500) 30%
Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0147 258) 35%

7 May 1943

1./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 508) damaged in aerial combat at Orel-Nord, 30%
2./JG 51: Fw 190 A-5 (W.Nr. 0157 227) damaged in aerial combat at Orel, 10%
3./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 494) belly-landing following aerial combat, 20%

8 May 1943

3./JG 51: Unteroffizier Fritz Häse wounded by ground fire at Orel
9./JG 51: Fw 190 A-5 "Yellow 3" (W.Nr. 0152 440) flown by Oberleutnant Maximilian Mayerl, wounded by ground fire at Spass-Demensk
12.JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 524) damaged by Flak hit, 30%

8 June 1943

3./JG 51: Fw 190 A-4 (W.Nr. 0142 489) crashed on take-off at Orel-Sloboda, 25%
15./JG 51: Fw 190 A-3 (W.Nr. 0135 327) flown by Oberleutnant Alejandro Pérez González, killed, crashed due to enemy fire, 100%

Horrido!

Leo

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

What a fantastic thread.

I'd like to thank Evengy Velichko, Nokose, Leo Etgen and everyone to help fill in some of the details in the more poorly covered Ostfront operations.

I'm sure many would appreciate future additions.

Thank you all.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

Greetings, Gents!

I am in direct contact with an author of this book, Oleg Rastrenin.

He is very interested in "german sight" of those raids.

Does anybody working on this subject? Claims/losses clarifications, "who shot who down"?

If You are interested, please let me know.

Re: VVS operations 6-8 may & 8-10 june 1943, claims and losses.
 

On this link : You may find a list of German losses on the ground linked to these raids, the quality of this website's articles depends from time to time, but this one seems OK (the reference of German documents is indicated), and is interesting in that it gives humans losses figures for flak units :

http://www.airwar.ru/history/av2ww/s...hturm1943.html

I hope you may find it useful.