Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Yes, and there is a lot of questions about Hartman's victories..

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I have spoken to Luftwaffe pilots who had their logbooks taken by the US or British troops who captured them; another whose home was in the Soviet zone and destroyed his logbook because he feared what would happen if he was found with a "Nazi" document. The late Erich Sommer lost most of his personal effects when a trailer fell into a ravine when his unit was retreating through the Alps from Italy.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Destruction of flight logs and the like is nothing uncommon on any side really. Strictly speaking, it certainly isn't the wisest thing, for those who did it, to take logbooks in the air with them. Logbooks can contain valuable intel for the capturers. On the ground, tons and tons of German documentation was destroyed on the ground to prevent it's capture; I'm sure more than a few logbooks ended up in burn cans. The same situation befell US forces during the fall of the Philippines in 1942. I'm sure the Brits went through the same in the Far East, France & the Lowlands and so on.

As far as my take on Exupery...this sounds like a lot of BS. The reality is we'll probably never know to a majority satisfaction who killed him, or if it was an accident or whatever other theories are floating around.

On another note, I recall that not too many years back, Exupery's medals were up for auction. Anyone know anything about that?

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I've just posted a new article on my website reviewing archival evidence for the Luftwaffe having shot Saint-Exupéry down.

Guess what …

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

As ever, excellent article Nick.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Hello Nick,

Good article indeed. Have you sent it for comments to Jacques Pradel and Luc Vanrell?

Regards,

Bart

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Nice artical Nick! Le Fana de l´Aviation is Nr. 297/August 1994

For others - with Nick´s help I prepared an artical for Czech business newspapers, artical is focused for common public and was published a week ago. It is in Czech language, so Slovak and possibly also Polish citizens can read it.

http://www.ihned.cz/c4-10131700-2363...nich-dokumentu

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Jan,

What's the conclusion in your article (sorry, my knowledge of the Czech language is rather limited)?

Regards,

Bart

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Bart,

having available relevant files from Nick, I came to conclusion that there is no engagement recorded over Southern France on July 31, 1944. As example of day when something happened, I used JGr. 200 interception of US Lockheed F-5 on July 30 and records available in US, UK and Germany.

I would add one comment to summary of Luftflotte 3 operations on July 31, 1944 - the daily summary says that 6 victories were achieved. All of them are known - single engine fighters claimed by JG 1 and JG 2 in different parts of France. It just confirms that no engagement was reported over Southern France.

I think that interception of a recon F-5 or Mosquito (Rippert claimed one on other day) was something special for pilots of Jafü Süd. Therefore Rippert could participate in such interception, even on July 30. He referes to Guhl as his very good friend. They served in same Staffel.

Rippert worried about his link to death of Saint-Exupery soon after the war. About 5 years after the war he came to conclusion that he had nothing to do with that. He was still having this impression 10 years ago from now. So you can see that he did not create this topic out of blue. As a pre-war reader of Saint-Ex he was disturbed by his death for decades.

But apparently he had doubts and qualms in the meantime ... after meeting with some researchers he said what he said in March 2008.

His statement doesn´t change my respect for almost 90 years old fighter ace.

cheers

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Hello Jan,

Thanks for the summary. It's quite enlightening.

Cheers,

Bart

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Thanks again, Nick!
Excellent article, as usual.

Juha

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Thanks everyone for your comments.

I will add a link to Jan's article at the next update of my site (next weekend?).

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

P.S. I've now picked up an interesting German language interview on the web with Lino von Gartzen (the man who got the "confession" from Horst Rippert) plus an article he wrote for a German newspaper.

I'll be adding translated extracts and comments to my article ASAP.

One interesting thing: other sources called von Gartzen a "Luftwaffe expert" but neither he nor his publisher (there's a book and a German TV documentary due in the Autumn) claim that — newspapers exaggerating, who would have thought it? — in fact he's an underwater archaeologist, while his French colleagues are diver/archaeologist and a TV journalist.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Nick
As a side note and off top, would you be so kind to make an article about browsing through Ultra files? I suppose it would be highly appreciated by all scholars of the subject.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Nick,

I join on to Franek´s request. It would be very kind and helpful.

Michal

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I have just posted an updated/expanded version of my Rippert & Saint-Exupéry article on my website, with a commentary on an interview and an article that Lino von Gartzen has done for German newspapers.

This also includes additional links, to Jan Bobek's piece amongst others (thanks again, Jan).

Franek & Fairlop: I can do a guide to ULTRA, in fact I'm fairly sure I've done it before (maybe it was on the Luftwaffe Archives Group forum? Richard Eger could remind me). How quickly I do it depends on whether I have to start all over again or I can find the previous version. There is one condition: you must promise not to use any of the files I want on the same day I want them!

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Oh, be sure I would not need your files! :)

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Roger ! ;)

Michal

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Lino von Gartzen, the man who got the story from Rippert, has contacted me and I've added his comments to the article on my website.

I'm not announcing "mystery solved" just yet, though!

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I wonder if anyone has seen the "Pradell book" yet?

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

In the article on my website, I've now added added extracts from the Missing Air Crew Report on Lightning pilot, Lt. Gene C. Meredith, who was shot down on 30 July 1944.

P.S. the Pradel/Vanrell book is now being advertised by la Maison du Livre Aviation in Paris.

Yours for 20€ (14 x 22 cm format, 190 pages, 21 b/w and colour photos)

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

I've made some additions to the article on my website, incorporating research done in the last three weeks.

I haven't solved the central mystery but there is now more detail on Jagdgruppe 200's actions on 30 July 1944 (including some Bf 109 Werk Nummern).

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

For those who are interested in - I am ordering this file from Bundesarchiv:

RL 8/80
Jagdfliegerführer Süd
Dienstbetrieb, Personalangelegenheiten.- Tagesbefehle (Einsatz Südfrankreich)
Nov. 1943 - Juli 1944
Abschussanerkennungen: Jagdgruppe Süd, Jagdgruppe 200, I. und II./J.G. 2, Ln.Rgt. 51

I bet that July 31 entries will be missing due to researcher´s bad luck :)

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Hello all,

Jan did You receive RL 8/80 Jagdfliegerführer Süd ???
Something interesting in it regarding this case ?

I am asking because German magazines (FLUGZEUG Classic for example) handle it as a FACT that Rippert shot down St. Ex.
As far as i understand there is no hard evidence till now that this is the case.

Schoene Gruesze

Norbert

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Hi Norbert,

The RL 8/80 unfortunately ends in early July.
So I am still not aware of any original document (Allied or German one)indicating a) aerial engagement over Southern France on July 31, 1944 and/or b) record about shooting down of Allied airplane in same teritorry and time.

I saw some interpretations recently in Fliegerblatt, but again - no original Allied or German documents were shown ... and I am looking forward to see what Flugzeug artical contains.

I identified another radar unit active in Southern France in this period. I will take a look in BA/MA document related to the unit and if something relevant will be there, I will post it here.

kind regards

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

Two bogeys were reported at 11.30 near Manosque on the 31st of July of 1944 by French P-47's pilots. Were theses bogeys german fighters? I think so, what else ? They flew to the east climbing from 20 000 Ft to 26 000 Ft . That means they were at the rigth altitude, on the right time, and at the rigth place to intercept Antoine de Saint-Exupery the F-5B.
But in My knowledge there is no evidence about an interception or a claim...

Guy

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

To me it sounds like Saint-Ex's oxygen system went on the fritz, otherwise there would have been some call from him.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

My own (evidence-free) theory about Rippert is that he may have been Fw. Guth's wingman during his successful interception of a Lightning on 30 July. Sixty-four years later, an imperfect memory might easily have turned that into his current recollection of events the following day.

Re: Pilot Horst Rippert claimed Saint Exupéry : 31 July 1944 / 15 March 2008 !
 

That reason sounds about as good as any we are liable to get.

Thanks for your superb write-up of the material on the Saint-Ex loss story. You always do a great job, Nick!

Best wishes,
George