Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello all honorable members of this forum.

Thank you all for your help.

Now that we have found the type of this wreck. He-219, so we are still missing parts of the aircraft's history.

1: Where can we find the identification signs of version number (the tail is missing from the plane)??

2: What happened to the plane, shot down and by whom?

3: When did this happen?

4: What happened to the crew?

5: Incoming views and ideas

Sincerely
Kim Christiansen

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi all,
Kim and I had a long conversation last night which was very helpful. here are some extracts.
The wreck is up-right. The canopy is gone. The rear seat was empty i.e. no remains of a crewmember. The belly is somewhat torn up. The propeller is not badly bent indicating idle or windmilling at impact.
My theory is that the a/c was ditched and the crew managed to vacate in an orderly manner. It is normal for a twin engined a/c to sustain level flight on one engine, so there is no reason to ditch except in case of double engine failure (fuel starvation) or severe combat damage.
Did the He219 carry a dinghy and if so where?
The location of the wreck indicates that the a/c might have been on an anti courier mission. Please see:
http://www.gyges.dk/Courier%20flight...%20sweeden.htm
Right now the wreck is covered by sand, but it shifts around and it may soon be uncovered.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

The He219 did carry a dinghy on the back just behind the Mk 108 compartment and in front of the dorsal loop antanna.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim, hello Michaël,

I have done some homework too and via Dave McDonald (New Zealand) following info was obtained from the NASM:

Behind the 'Notsitz' as discussed before, the Kärcher heater crosses the next vertical frame, on the back of it a triangular tag was attached to it in which the number is stencilled. See enclosed picture, the view is looking forward in the direction of the cockpit.

There are some parts which are distinctive for each He219 subtype, I will select these to help a more specific search for these parts.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

This may enable us to sing from the same sheet.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

No tanks in the wings ?

Is there an explanation ??


Rémi

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Here are a few pics of the NASM He-219. The interior airframe is unrestored and in near perfect condition.


Aft fuselage, interior, looking forward. You can see the frames have been numbered and the green 20mm Schrage Musik ammo cans at the front.
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219a.jpg

Another view looking forward and you can just see the white seatbelt/harness fittings at the bottom of the picture. There was no seat, just an area to lay down in. Most likely used by maintenance for test flights (American or German?). There is also a window in the upper fuselage just above this area.
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219b.jpg

Aft fuselage, interior, looking aft. You can see the sealbelt/harness area at the bottom of the picture. In the far rear fuselage is the heater & ductwork for de-icing.
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219c.jpg

And currently,
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219d.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219e.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219f.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219g.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219h.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219i.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219j.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219k.jpg
http://i533.photobucket.com/albums/ee337/mjfur/219l.jpg

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Really nice pictures !!!!

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

very very nice pictures!

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Attachment 6465

Attachment 6466

Attachment 6467

Attachment 6468

Attachment 6469

Attachment 6470

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

More pics from He-219

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Here are 5 additional photographs of the seat harness in the rear fuselage of the NASM HE-219. The harness with a lapbelt faces to the rear and there is a small window above the area. The thinking is there is no other apparent reason for a person to be in there other than to perform maintenance on the FuG 220 radar.

Tony

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

- yes. please :)

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

Photos from todays dive !!!

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Mutterkompass?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi.

Just curious - who is and how are you preserving the parts lifted from the wreck?

To my experience a panel like the one shown on the curb will be eaten up quite fast when exposed to air... It should be preserved in water and oil before you only have dust left of what seems to be part of an unique airframe...

Regards,
Andreas B

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

For your information this part of the panel has been stored for one year now.

We have been diving for more than 20 years, and has restored many things from shipwreck etc.

Please see new pics.

More information will come during this summer

URGENT:
We still need to find information of this He-219 ???

Regards
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Kim, is there any evidence of radar on the wreck as l believe some early examples were being flown on pilot familiarisation ( from Grove?) with the radar removed,

Regards

Brian Bines

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

For the moment we have not seen any radar, but we are still looking .

The visibility in the water makes problem for us !!!

Rgds
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
Some fantastic news. The wreck is going to be salvaged on 23 - 24 april 2012.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Wonderful news indeed -who is undertaking the salvage and where will the wreckage end up?

regards
Dave

He-219 from Denmark will now be salvaged !!!
 

Hi

Please see this press release .

Regards
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Thanks Kim-hope it all goes well.

Dave

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hopefully there will be a Wnr somewhere, so we can solve this mysteri:-)

Junker

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Glad the aircraft will be heading to a good home, well done one and all.

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Photos of the recovery...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/14967...ising+a+He+219

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

LOL - came in here to see if you had something more than I - to see my post at hyperscale linked here :-)

Quite a day!

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

I was thinking after going to the salvage yesterday - and I have to stress that I'm just shooting off my mouth:

The 219 was odd in a couple of ways - the before mentioned MG15 magazine found and only the belly guns were mounted - schräge musik and wing guns were not there. Second I think the plane came down in some kind of controlled (some kind) landing. It was close to shore and heading along the shore, which would make sense when making an emergency landing. But the ejector seats had not been fired so the pilot chose to stay with the plane. Parts of the canopy's were there too.

So here's where I'm just fantazising!! What if this one was one of those at Grove/Karup earmarked for transport to the US? Could explain the partial disarmament (partial dismantlement for transport) and why the pilot - likely an allied test pilot not trusting the ejector seat - chose to stay with the plane.

The current 219 is unknown - no record exist of a crash in those waters. Naturally records could have been lost, but it could also be that in the rather unorthodox days following the end of the war in Europe, a loss of a foreigh aircraft would not be consideret important enough to record, especially if you had enough to go around?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
Very relevant considerations, I would however suggest, that the a/c could be on transfer from Norway to Denmark. The Grove He219 are all accounted for.
The lack of the S.M. Mk108 is not unusual, they were very unpopular with the crews and frequently removed at Staffel level.
The lack of wing guns is very odd, AFAIK they were the basic armament.
The Mg15 could be explained by a ventral gun position found on some samples of the He219.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Must confess I dont have any reference books on this, but my search on the net talks about Whatson's Whizzers picking up 3 He 219's at Grove. All references talk about A-2 290202 / FE-614 which is the NASM and A-5 290060 FE-612 with unknown fate. Whatever the last bit means, it still leaves one (FE-613?). I also found A-2 290126 but I dont know if it became a FE aircraft or it was discarded at Grove.

BTW the plane recovered is definately not an A-7 as the air scoops on the wings were of the plain type (leading edge, no boxy scooops below)

Getting somewhat fired up here - what is the best book on Whatson's Whizzers ?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi,
You are missing AM 20, 21, 22 and 23. Additionally one was wrecked and ended up in the junk-yard.
bregds
SES

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

German Parachute buckle shown on previous photos, would that preclude being flown post-war by an Allied pilot ?

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

One of the more recent books on Watson's Whizzers is by Wolfgang Samuels:


Watson's Whizzer's: Operation Lusty and the Race for Nazi Aviation Technology. Schiffer Publishing, Ltd., 2010

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello all,

Because there are many myths and misconceptions about the subtypes of the He219 (one of these the allegedly produced A-5 batch), we all anxiously look forward to any indications leading to the identification of this bird:

- (the jackpot) the Werkenummer/Stkz. plate of the whole aircraft
- the subtype of the DB603, that must be an easy one after cleaning these
- manufacturer part identification plates (for some parts the number does narrow down the subtype, on a Vienna produced He219 some of these plates also carry the Werkenummer of the aircraft itself!)

htlund: statisticly this He219 could have been ditched by an allied pilot after the war but then the chance that it was recorded somewhere, is substantially higher than a (still unknown) ditching of a German flown He219, especially if one considers that for many known He219's no single documentary 'event' has been recorded, whether that be a first Werkflug, Abname, transfer, acceptance date, repair or complete loss.

A quick estimate in my database learns that we more or less know the final fates of 70% of all produced He219's. The balance of 'unknowns' among the Vienna He219's versus Rostock He219's is 1 to 5, so it is my educated quess that the recovered wreck is a Rostock produced He219.

Up to further new info from the wreck, we can speculate until we have grey haires, but this is what we now know.

Keeping my fingers crossed, all the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

cannot WAIT to see these parts all cleaned up! Sadly, the corrosion and damage appears to be pretty bad...arg... :(

Mike

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi

Here are pictures from the just finished recovering of He-219th

It looks messy, but the little wise men with hammer and chisel are very happy.

Pictures can be seen at www.danas-have.dk/He219.htm.

I hope that the images in row A + B can identify the aircraft ???


More information will follow later.

Regards
Kim C

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Kim,

Wonderful! Here the first comments:
"219-320" identifies this part of the He219 as the inner landing flap left, whereas "lxx" means that this part was manufactured by Land- und See-Leichtbau GmbH, work Kiel, Kolonnenweg (Schleswig-Holstein) which points to a Rostock produced He219.

I will send the number on the engine to a Daimler-Benz expert. The tire was made by the German branch of Conti(nental) and was a copy of US style tires.

It's a very encouraging start of the identification ! All the best,

Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hi Kim and Marcel,

Those are really exciting photos.

Regarding the “9-603 XX5017 13” numerals visible in several of the photos, unless I am mistaken, these are part numbers or casting numbers for the DB603 engine block and not a distinct Motornummer.

Steve Sheflin

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Hello Steve,

I have sent the same number on the engine to Peter Achs, who (as I am told) is a Daimler Benz expert. I do hope that he speaks the magic words soon.

Of course there are several parts which are specific for eiter an A-0, A2 or A-7 subtype but first they have to recover as most parts as possible to increase the chance of restauration and/or identification.

All the best, Marcel

Re: He 219 found in Denmark !!!
 

Marcel

If the boxy wing air intake that's on the Tamiya model is a sure id of an A-7 then it's definately not.

http://www.danas-have.dk/images/HE219/img_5892.jpg

You mentioned that the A-5 was not produced - did I understand that correctly (you are the guy working on Venlo 219's right?). Are the production batches for the 219 nailed down?