Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

I never claimed the Luftwaffe was precise in its use!

Seriously though, I think the meaning of besondere Verwendung and vorlaeufig/Behelf is so different that I really can not see this being a good way to translate it. Since there is a lack of clarity, I would go with the literal translation (special purpose), keeping in mind that a special purpose could of course have been carried out by a provisional formation.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Re post # 40.
:D
SES

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Hello Forum, dear Larry

in the german military abriviation, war department, military war service of 12.04.43, special series Nr. 12, it is refered
"for special use".

An other aspect of the definition "zur besonderen Verwendung"; it was a unit designation in order to deceive the enemy as to the actual role of the unit.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

My facsimile of the US War Department 1944 dictionary has it under the entry for "Verwendung", translated as "on special assignment." Odd though that "z.b.V." isn't among the abbreviations covered.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Great contributions, Byron and Nick! That adds two more to the "pot": "for special use" and "on special assignment"!

For Byron: "deceive the enemy" as one of its uses was probably true in some cases, but not all.

For Nick: I first checked under "zur", found nothing, then moved on to "besonderer" and found what I reported above. I did not check "Verwendung".

Here's another possibility on why "z.b.V." was used. The various branches of the Wehrmacht were very meticulous about developing KStNs and KANs for all units down to the size of a Trupp. There is some evidence to suggest that "z.b.V." was used as a suffix for units that did not have standard KStNs and KANs but rather deviated from the standard and the "z.b.V." suffix was used to indicated that fact. For example, a Kampfgruppe z.b.V. had a KStN and KAN that differed from that of the standard Kampfgruppe.

It was also used to designate units that could be assigned and employed independently as opposed to those that were part of an Abteilung, Regiment or Geschwader. That independent mobility also gave them a somewhat different KStN and KAN out of necessity, such as a beefed-up Stabskompanie or Stabszug to handle personnel paperwork.

L.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Larry IMHO that is bang on. If a unit was "special" the Germans used the expression "Sonder".
bregds
SES

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

I am afraid I have to disagree with Larry here. Kampfgruppen never had standard KSTNs as far as I am aware, and I would like to see one if I am wrong. They were always ad-hoc, and based on whatever was available/needed. Furthermore, there were units with normal names that had special KSTNs (e.g. 90. leichte Afrika-Division, originally Division z.b.V. Afrika). On the other hand, my understanding, weak as it is, is that the transport units had a standard KSTN, even though they were called z.b.V.?

If you however look e.g. on WW2daybyday (Christoph Awender's site), you find a lot of z.b.V. in the KSTNs. For example in a Zugtrupp (platoon command section) there was a NCO (Uffz) z.b.V. That just means he was available as a floating resource to the platoon commander, but there was nothing special about him, other than that he did not have a permanent job allocated to him. So if e.g. a section commander became a casualty, the Uffz. z.b.V. could take over the section. Or if a special mission was necessary with some volunteers, the Uffz. z.b.V. could lead this.

All the best

Andreas

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

And here we enter the minefield that is German grammar … I fully expect to be corrected by our German colleagues but here's what I remember from school:

"zur" is a contraction of "zu der." "zu" takes the dative, so the "der" is feminine dative, not masculine nominative, and the presence of the definite article affects the declension of the ensuing adjective. So the phrase is either "zu besonderer Verwendung" or "zur besonderen Verwendung" but NOT "zur besonderer ..." or "zu besonderen …"

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

I think that's pretty much spot on. Your German grammar beats mine anyday.

Verwendung is female (die Verwendung).

Alles Gute

Andreas

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

As is anything ending in "...ung", or "... schaft" I think. But the Wehrmacht, Luftwaffe, Kriegsmarine and SS are feminine while the Heer is neuter! And Geschwader is neuter (as are all collective nouns) while Gruppe, Staffel, Kette and Rotte are feminine and Schwarm is masculine.

It would help if they could come to a historic agreement with their French neighbours as well. At the moment they even disagree over the gender of Sun, the Moon and the World.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Hi Nick,

mostly but not always, for ex. Sprung, Dung, are masculins.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Hi Andreas,

Kampfgeschwader, Kampfgruppen and all their components had standarized KStNs. See below.

1161 (L) Stab eines Kampfgeschwaders (HQ and Staff of a Bomber Geschwader)
1 Oct 38: 6 officers, 2 officials and 8 enlisted
c 1943: 4 officers and 23 enlisted
1162 (L) Stab einer Kampfgruppe (HQ and Staff of a Bomber Gruppe)
1 Nov 38: 7 officers, 2 officials and 30 enlisted; 5 aircraft
c 1943: 7 officers, 5 officials and 213 enlisted; 4 aircraft
1162c (L) Stab einer Kampfgruppe (LT) (HQ and Staff of a Bomber Gruppe (Aerial Torpedo))
1163 (L) Kampfstaffel (Bomber Staffel)
1 Nov 38: 16 officers and 60 enlisted; 14 aircraft (incl. 2 transports)
c 1943: 14 officers and 117 enlisted; 12 aircraft
1163c (L) Kampfstaffel (LT) (Bomber Staffel (Aerial Torpedo))
1164 (L) Stabsstaffel eines Kampfgeschwaders (HQ Staffel of a Bomber Geschwader)
1 Oct 38: 17 officers and 102 enlisted; 15 aircraft
1171 (L) Stab eines Fernkampfgeschwaders (HQ and Staff of a Long-Range Bomber
Geschwader
1172 (L) Stab einer Fernkampfgruppe (HQ and Staff of a Long-Range Bomber Gruppe)
1173 (L) Fernkampfstaffel (Long-Range Bomber Staffel)
1174 (L) Stabskompanie einer Fernkampfgruppe (HQ Company of a Long-Range Bomber
Gruppe
1220 (L) Eisenbahn-Bekämpfungsstaffel (v) (Railway Attack Staffel (transferable))
1462 (L) Stab d. IV. Gruppe eines Kampfgeschwaders (HQ and Staff of a IV Gruppe of a
Bomber Geschwader)
1463 (L) Kampfstaffel d. IV. Gruppe eines Kampfgeschwaders (Bomber Staffel of the IV Gruppe
of a Bomber Geschwader)
1472 (L) Stab d. IV. Gruppe einer Fernkampfgruppe (HQ and Staff of the IV Gruppe of a
Long-Range Bomber Gruppe)
1473 (L) Fernkampfstaffel d. IV. Gruppe eines Fernkampfgeschwaders (Long-Range Bomber
Staffel of the IV Gruppe of a Long-Range Bomber Geschwader)
1474 (L) Stabskompanie d. IV. Gruppe eines Fernkampfgeschwaders (HQ Company of the IV
Gruppe of a Long-Range Bomber Geschwader)
3383 (L) Luftnachrichten-Kompanie (Mot) eines Kampfgeschwaders (Air Force Signals
Company (Motorized) of a Bomber Geschwader)
1 Oct 43: 6 officers and 324 enlisted; 80 motor vehicles


Larry :)

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Hi Larry

Sorry, I was thinking of the Heer. :o

All the best

Andreas

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

The above continued for Andreas. Below are the KStNs for transport units. These did not exist until the 1 May 1943 reorganization. There were none for the Kampfgruppe z.b.V. units, at least none that have been found of that anyone knows about. The Kampfgruppe z.b.V. units used the standard one for a Kampfgruppe [1162 (L), etc.] with extensive alterations, hence the "z.b.V." designations.

1177 (L) Transportstaffel eines Fliegerkorps (Mot.) (Air Transport Staffel of a Fliegerkorps (Motorized))
1177b (L) Transportstaffel (Für Sondereinsatz) (Mot.) (Air Transport Staffel (For Special Operations) (Motorized)
1178 (L) Transportstaffel eines Fallschirmkorps (Air Transport Staffel of a Paratroop Corps)
1180 (L) Transportstaffel des Chef des Nachschubwesens (Air Transport Staffel of the Director of Supply
1181 (L) Stab eines Transportfliegergeschwaders (Mot) (Staff of an Air Transport Geschwader (Motorized))
1945 allowance: 6 officers, 44 NCOs and men, 1 liaison aircraft
1182 (L) Stab einer Transportfliegergruppe (Mot) (Staff of an Air Transport Gruppe (Motorized))
1945 allowance: 7 officers, 60 NCOs and men, 1 liaison aircraft (prior to 24 Feb 44 had 5 transport aircraft instead of the liaison aircraft)
1182a (L) Stab einer Transportfliegergruppe (Schl) (Staff of an Air Transport Gruppe (Towing))
1183 (L) Transportfliegerstaffel (Mot) (Air Transport Staffel (Motorized)
1945 allowance: 6 officers, 121 NCOs and men, 16 transport aircraft (prior to 24 Feb 44 had 12 transport aircraft)
1183a (L) Transportfliegerstaffel (Schl) (Air Transport Staffel (Towing)
1202 (L) Stab einer Transportfliegergruppe (Me 323) (Mot) (Staff of an Air Transport Gruppe (Me 323) (Motorized))
1203 (L) Transportfliegerstaffel (Me 323) (Mot) (Air Transport Staffel (Me 323) (Motorized))
1945 allowance: 3 officers, 218 NCOs and men, 12 Me 323 transports
1204 (L) Stabsstaffel einer Transportfliegergruppe (Me 323) (Mot) (Stabsstaffel of an Air Transport Gruppe (Me 323) (Motorized))
(KStN unknown) Transportfliegerstaffel (Ju 352) (Air Transport Staffel (Ju 352)
1945 allowance: 7 officers, 116 NCOs and men, 12 Ju 352 transports
5112 (L) Stab einer Luftverkehrsgruppe (Staff of an Air Service Gruppe)
5113 (L) Luftverkehrsstaffel (Air Service Staffel)

Larry :)

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

How can we agree with people who claim that their cocks are singing "kikeriki", while we all know they sing "cocorico"?
:D

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Had a couple of years of university German myself and lived in Germany for nearly 5 years. But that was 100 years ago so I've forgotten many of the intricate pecularities of German grammar with all the well-concealed boobytraps and landmines. If you remembered all the stuff you posted above without reference to a German grammar book or Google, then you deserve to be knighted by both QE and Angela Merkel!!

L.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Must confess that the German Grammar book is always to hand. If it's any comfort, a German friend of mine who's studied and worked over here for years says that these days her parents pick her up grammatical mistakes when she visits them.

P.S. I understand Frau Merkel quite well when she's on the news (often, these days) but some blasted commentator always cuts in and fades her voice down!

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Tell her to change her jackets, she seems to be always bulging out of them.
:)

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

A bit more about Oberst Karl von Wechmar and his "very doubtful" service in KG 3 (source ULTRA CX/JQ/455). I'm guessing that I./KG 3 passing on information to KG 26 about his war flights implies that these had been carried out with the former.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

It gets better, see this ULTRA from November 1940 in which British Intelligence shows its understanding of the term "z.b.V."

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

The four were pigs "on special assignment" (for fattening) for later "special use" (the dinner table). :)

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

Excellent! You made my day.

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

No, no you still do not understand, the pigs were not on the K.St.N, hence zbV ;). It is rare to see this sort of humor in official messages.
If you need another good laugh, please read the official instruction for the handling of enemy carrier pigeons on espionage missions.
http://www.gyges.dk/radars_and_carrier_pigeons.htm
bottom of the page.
bregds
SES

Re: Luftwaffe Officer Career database now available
 

We has meanz to make you coo!